Flatmotor Clutch won't disengage...suggestions needed

I've always been told NOT to play with those bolts. I'm certainly no expert by any means but I think they are adjusted at the factory on a fixture of some sort using feeler gauges. I've never seen a 1/8" feeler gauge. That sounds too excessive to me. Maybe I'm just a wimp but I'd be scared that any adjustment at home would void any warranty. I might be way off base but I'd check with the manufacturer before screwing up an expensive clutch by messing with the factory adjustments. JMHO

 

I'm thinking the McCloud 10.5" clutch disc Red's sold me, and the Vapex 10" pressure plate aren't working well together. They don't like each other.

 

The '32-47 clutch and trans manual gives the needed numbers...there is a specified thickness of disc for each clutch size, a different spec for a testing plate, and a specified distance from the adjuster screw to straightedge across top of cover.
If you need to adjust, I can dig up numbers...
The "no touch" rule might well be obsolete, as I have heard a number of reports of people driven mad by clutch chatter eventually finding that all the fingers were at different heights...the time of ***uming expertise at either manufacturer or rebuilder may be over.
Now...you are running a normal Ford PP, and an oversized disc...aren't the originals right at 10?? I keep scrolling back and forth between the pictures...too dumb to get then together. Overlap at rivets looks different...is the disc sticking out from under the plate or not?? That rivet area looks somehow different...cannot tell. If disc is indeed bigger than pressure plate, I would wonder what is happening out at corners of PP cover...I just can't quite tell what I'm seeing there. My memory is of PP and disc both being real close to an actual 10".

 

Yea Bruce, he sold me a 10.5" clutch disc for a stock style PP. Said it should work, and when I bolted it up, I could have sworn there was enough clearance between the disc and mounting on the flywheel. I was too cheap to buy the McCloud Pressure plate.

 

Matt, just a sanity check - when people say start the engine with it in gear, the ***umption is that the clutch pedal is pressed down while you do it. Can you confirm that is how you did it?
Like Bruce, I have been studying the pics as best as I can, but is the clutch disc bigger than the pressure plate diameter? Is the clutch hub smaller than the inner diameter of the pressure plate? Are you SURE you have the disc in the right way round? They are normally marked "Flywheel side".
If you think everything is ok, and trying to start in gear does not free it off, if the car is driveable try driving in 2nd or top at about 2000 rpm and with the clutch down, going on and offr the gas - wide open,,, closed,.. wide open.. closed - that, with a bit of heat from the running engine might free it off.
Mart.

 

This thing has already driven me insane...I'll try that when I get home.

 

I think Bruce is right, the thickness of the disc could be the problem.
The pp arms seam's almost to be in the release position, just when its bolted on.

 

Thickness OR diameter!! Maybe AND/OR! In the second pic, I just cannot tell if I am looking at protruding disc or just the flywheel insert there. If it protrudes past PP, I would be really worried about its relationship to the PP cover where it comes down.
I mourn the old days, when one could just go to Joblot and get NOS genuine Ford parts and simply screw them together without having to re-flog mistakes made by the entire chain of supply...I think the clutch in my '48 was boxed with Swiss military tags; genuine Ford, of course.

 

Matt... Did you talk to Red personally? He's usually pretty good about this stuff but I think he sold the business and I've heard mixed reviews about the new ownership...

Bruce is probably right... With no real knowledge of this situation, I'm still pretty confident saying that.

 

Not red, but Jim...Don't know how to get ahold of Red?

 

Not sure you can anymore...

I guess it doesn't change anything, you still have to figure out where the interferance is if any... Through the access you should be able to see if the disk is significantly bigger than the pressure plate...

Bruce et al... I'm learning here too..

Can you tell if you have any clearance on either face of the disk with the cluch released?

You would think that if it just needed to be broken free, there would be a slight gap on one face, the disk wouldn't expand as the pressure was released right? Or is the gap too small to identify through the access?

If the bolts are maladjusted, would you be able to 'feel' (gauge) it with the pedal depressed? Would there be an uneven or partial gap on one face of the disk?

 

Many discs are two separated discs with a marcel (wavy washer spring) spring between and do indeed expand a small amount there.
Sticking usually happens from rust on a used ***embly left sitting for a while.
This somehow smells of actual mechanical interference...

 

Had some trouble with a clutch I got from Joblot a few years ago, As the trans went in the fingers were hitting the housing (transmission),and I didn't know it till I tryed to start it. Had to take it all apart and showed Ray ( he's gone now) what the trouble was with a same size socket as the housing.

 

Was that a pre-1935 trans housing?

 

Anyone or anywhere in Austin where I could find a 10" clutch disc???

 

After close inspection of the pics... Looks like the disc may be just a little too big in diameter. The notch in the cover for the mounting bolts has a square corner that may be hanging up the disc..
On a slightly different area of concern...Lets talk about "draw down " This is the term used to describe set up for bolting the pressure plate to the flywheel.
The thickness of the friction material on ONE side of your disc should be .100 thou more or less. NOT the maciel spring, just the friction material.. Before you bolt up your pressure plate hold it up to the flywheel with the disc in place. The cover should stand up off of the flywheel .100 thou ( same as the # above ) When you install and tighten down the bolts it will "draw down" and pull the fingers in.
Do not get all tied up in exact #'s here, this is a basic rule of thumb that works on new or used parts...Not enough " draw down " and the clutch will slip, Too much "draw down " and the clutch will NOT release..
It sure sounds like you are going to have to take it apart...Bummer...
Let us know what you find..
Dave

 

Napa, maybe?

 

Well the problem IS the disk is tooooo big for the cover! You should not see any of the disk extending beyond the frction surface of the cover. DO NOT mess with the screws on on the fingers of the cover ,those are set to spec on a rebuilding fixture. Worked once at a place that rebuild clutches. Look for a disk for Ford PU to 52 as that should be a 10" with the big spline.

 

Thank you John Evans !
My advice exactly...Great minds think alike,,,LOL !

 

Yeah, that's what I meant to add to the Napa post... I'm pretty sure they carry at least one of those in the store...

 

Nowadays, you need to check those fingers...it seems lots are coming trough precision set to random. Bolt ***embly together, at least see if all are at same height. If not, look in the book and runthrough the checks listed by Ford! The day of ***uming that anyone has the fixture and actually used it are over. Flywheel, clutch PP, and disc can be used for all the Ford rec adjust procedures and this may well be necessary if fingers are delivered wrong.
From catalogs, it looks like some Ford sizes are now new Chinese (the famous Rong type pressure plate?? Sorry!) and some are rebuilts. I'm guessing that the Chinese don't have the fixture, and the old guy at the rebuilder who knew the fixture was replaced 20 years ago by an immigrant subsistence farmer from Nicaragua...

 

And I didn't even trouble you guys with the problem I had with my Petronix Unit going out on me again...

 

You guys see any issues with the Aluminum flywheel with a metal insert and a stock pressure plate and clutch disc.

 

Ford specifies a spacer plate on the flywheel .295 thick for 10" adjustment...fortunately, they also allow an actual pressure plate in the sandwich for PP adjustment.
Put a straightedge across top of PP and see if fingers are all in the same plane.
Proper depth of fingers from the straightedge is also .295. All measurements differ by clutch size. Ain't no 10 1/2 of course.

 

Have the 10" disc being shipped from Joblot...should be here tomorrow am.

NOW, who would like to come over and help with the thrash? I guess the garage crawl is out for me tomorrow?

 

I could be crazy, but it looks like from the pictures that the flywheel is turned over or on backwards in the lower photo. What type flathead, ie 8Ba or 59A
do you have and is the correct crank for that engine in it.

 

No way the flywheel is on wrong...8ba, yes it's a 4" 8cm crank

 

Bill at Austin Performance stocks a number of centerforce clutch discs. long shot, but worth a try!

 

Are you sure you have the throwout bearing on the transmission,lets see a picture of the transmission

 

My guess . . the disk is hanging up on something. Either the diameter is catching the pressure-plate housing or the springs are hitting the flywheel bolts. Make sure when you lay the disk on the flywheel - that you can spin it by hand and it isn't hanging up on the bolts (before you bolt the pressure plate one). Hopefully your new disk will resolve the issue. This is one reason I tend to buy the clutch and disk from one manufacturer - so I can go one place to resolve issues.