I've got a '51 F1. I'm wanting to get it on the road cheap so I've been looking for a running car/pickup that I can just pluck the drivetrain out of it and dump it in my pickup. Has to be Ford though for me. No 350/350 bs. So- I just found a restored but wrecked '72 LTD with 400 in it (cheap). Will I have any problems installing this big block in my pickup? I'm aware of the aftermarket crossmembers and what-not. Am I going to have clearance issues? Should I just wait for a 302/C4 combo?
400M is not something worth swapping unless it's one of the freakish few that don't run like a tractor motor and make half the power they should for the 11 mpg consumption. I'm not saying they're not out there. I've just never seen one worth a damn in any kind of stock configuration. You can do some freakish things with them involving huge cubes and huge power and huge dollars, but doesn't sound like that's what you're after. If you don't care about mileage, hold out for an 390/460. Otherwise just wait for the right 289/302/351W to cross your path. good luck
I think you're right. I just remembered that I had a '79 Bronco one time that had a 400 in it and it seemed to be the most sluggish thing I've ever owned. Power or not, it's a big block so it's going to **** the gas like mad. And you're also right that I don't want to dump any money into it (anytime soon anyways). I appreciate it.
I put a 400 out of a '77 Lincoln in mine. I my opinion they are a good choice for an old pickup. Get rid of the smog **** and put on an Edelbrock carb and intake. One wire alternator, and a one wire distributor and it works great, no fuss. You can buy a motor mount for about $75 from Speedway.
ford played with cam retard timing as a cheap way to meet smog regulation. a good cam and new roller chain set up right really helps Retired Ford Engineer.
I think the earlier 400s ran better then the ones in the late 70s so grab it if its cheap,when the 351-M came out in 75 I think the 400s were changed a bit too but I am not 100 percent certain. I had a late 70s f150 with a 351-M that had a RV cam in it and it ran great and got decent gas mileage.
It is cheap. That's why I'm interested. That, and the fact that it was rebuilt 20,000 miles ago. I can pick up the whole car for under 5 Franklins.
??? Running a 390 with 390GT cam and heads, along with an Offy 2x4 (twin 625 custom Carter AFB's) in a F100. Mileage is 22 on gasoline at 70 (about 18 and 1/2 on ethanol). What is bad about that??? Jon.
1971 was the only year the 400 was pre-smog. 1972 and on, it perpetually got worse. Also, it is not a big block, it is a 335 series. It shares the same dimensions as the Windsor block up until the beginning of the deck height. From there it is similar to the 335 series Cleveland except it has a longer deck height. Thus the wider intake, but shares the same size heads. On a rare occasion, the 400 "FMX" block has the small bell bolt pattern. There also is on a rare occasion a 400 with the Windsor style 2 bolt motor mount location. (probably the same FMX block). I put one in my first '48 F1, and with the stock beam axle, and Toyota PS box, it had to be located to the p***. side at least 3/4". Sanderson headers make for a good fit for exhaust. The engine ain't all that bad, since it has good low end torque without having to rev it up. Thus why it was put in big cars and later on, trucks. Besides, in stock form it has a longer stroke than any other Ford engine.
That data point is so far off my experiences that I'm wondering if your figures are calculated while driving in outer space, free of gravity and air resistance.
Greg, from reading the bonus built group thread, I see you have a Merc flathead. Why not use that? It's a great engine.
Well my take since I've had a built 400M in a pickup. I'd find a nice 351Windsor or 302 with a AOD transmission and leave the 400M alone, They are almost the same physical size and weight of a 460 and there are very few aftermarket parts for them. If you want it cheap, easy, and quick stay with a 302 or 351 Windsor Tom
Yup...and you wonder why simple ol' Chevy gets the nod for most builds. What was Ford thinking to make so much complication in their engines!?!? Multiple mount configurations, bellhousing patterns...deck heights...etc. Absolute foolishness...and from the company that put "parts standardization" on the map!
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!! That has to be one of the most outrageous claims I've ever heard!!!!!!!! I have a 68 F100 that had a 360, with a 2 bbl, and a 3 speed manual trans. I couldn't squeeze no more than 8 mpg out of it, I put a 302 in it with a 600 Holley vac secondary carb, and it gets 13 mpg now. My truck weighs in at 4200 lbs, LWB, 2wd.
I sold it. I really respect the flatties and think they're cool but I wanted something a little more inexpensive, plentiful and reliable.
Strongly advise against the 400 and PARTICULARLY the '72 400. Heads were so bad that Ford had to drop the static compression in the sewer to get them to operate on pump gas without detonating the motor. Been there, done that. Use an FE or 385 series. The 390 can be found cheaply and built to a formidable motor. Here's a DynoSim I ran for a fellow on another forum... 390 block bored +0.030". 390 crank Rods: I'll leave this to others who have more knowledge of the FE, although I wouldn't be afraid to use the production C6ME-A rods, re-sized with ARP bolts. Pistons: Speed Pro L2291F30 forged. http://store.summitracing.com/partde...0&autoview=sku Heads: Edelbrock 60069, 170cc intake runners, 72cc chambers, 2.09" intake, 1.66" exhaust. http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku Intake: Dual-plane, high-rise such as the Performer RPM or Weiand Stealth. Carb: 850 CFM Headers: large primaries, equal-length, long-tube. (real headers, not those cheezy shortie units). Cam: CompCams 33-230-4 hydraulic flat tappet, installed 2 degrees retarded. http://www.compcams.com/Cam_Specs/Ca...?csid=934&sb=0 Static compression ratio: 9.90:1 Dynamic compression ratio: 8.28:1 Volumetric efficiency: 102.8% @ 5000 rpm's. BMEP pressure: 205.2 @ 5000 rpm's. Juggle the block deck height and gasket thickness to achieve a squish of 0.035" to 0.045". With a tight squish and optimized ignition timing, this motor should easily run on pump gas with zero detonation. RPM HP TQ 2000 160 419 2500 196 412 3000 248 434 3500 319 478 4000 388 509 4500 460 536 5000 512 538 5500 535 510 6000 550 481 6500 514 415 This cam clicks off like a switch at 6100. There's a dogleg in the torque curve at 2000-2500 that I don't much like, but I was able to minimize it by retarding the cam 2 degrees. There are many who poo-poo the results of these software dyno pulls and in some cases I have to agree with them that the numbers seem optimistic. The beauty of the software is that you can COMPARE different parts and how they react with each other. It's not necessarily the definitive number, but the comparison that makes the software valuable. I tried 6 different cams, advancing and retarding them, 3 different intakes, 2 different pistons, 3 different carbs and 4 different static compression ratios to get the results shown here. I have compared results from this software to hard-core dyno pulls and it seems to be within about 2% on the numbers. By the way, here are the numbers on the Edelbrocks.... 0.100 88 64 0.200 153 113 0.300 195 148 0.400 233 171 0.500 265 183 0.600 270 200<!-- / message --><!-- edit note -->
They made the 1972 open chamber heads to reduce the compression ratio because of the lower octane, and lower leaded fuel because of emissions. The 400C is still a small block, Ford made the 351M by using the shorter stroke 351W crankshaft because of a crankshaft shortage for the 400C (the 351W crank drops right into a 400C block with no mods besides a piston with a 1/2" taller compression height to make up for the shorter stroke). The 400C uses the same bell housing bolt pattern as the 429 - 460 does (some 400C's were made with the smaller windsor bell housing bolt pattern, but they are very rare!). You can put the 400C with the C6 trans in, and later on you can just swap out the 400C to a 429 - 460 without having to change the transmission mount, or the driveshaft, the 429 - 460 can use the 400C motor mounts with a little modification. Just some food for thought.
No offense, as I have nothing against the FE, but the O.P. did say he wanted it on the road cheap. That usually translates into whatever is available at the moment. My $.02 FWIW: Torque 518 HP 481
I went the uncomplicated route with the reliable 429/460. There is plenty of cheap speed equiptment and with the C-6 transmission there bullet proof to say the least. With the RV cam,anti pump up lifters,aluminum intake and Timing gears /roller chain and a holley 650 I get 19 on hiway with all the power I can possibly use. I pull a 20 ft trailer and it doesn't know its back there.
my 76 f250 with 3:73's and a stock 390 got 13 running rough. 22 in a car not out of the pic if gearing is right. my 73 400 grand prix would pull 10-15 in town and 20 on the freeway if you didn't bust 65mph... right around 62-63 is where wind resistence becomes an issue. under that speed and the change in air pressure from speed is fairly linear.
Actually a real common swap in those old trucks a big olds. 394 or equivalent block. If you gotta go Ford a 460 goes in pretty easy as does an FE. But the 460 will be your cheapest build. They have a lotta room in the dawg house.
Real world...for what you are getting for the 500 bucks is a deal. You are getting a provider car with all kinds of little things you can use on your project to save money and when you are done picking, s**** the rest for some more bucks. 400s are not bad engines. The fact is, as others said, they were govt. regulated into sluggishness. I ran one in an O/T pickup for years with an Edelbrock intake and 500cfm carb, RV cam and double roller timing set, and 2 1/2 in duals. It did a great job for me, eventhough it was neither race ready or a gas mileage champ, the truck would tow anything within reason and was VERY dependable.
Not a big Ford guy, but I have helped buddies with them. So with that said, here's my 2 cents.... Get a complete running donor. As mentioned, there are a lot of little idiosyncrasies where you have to have the right combo of parts. Stopping to figure out starters, flexplates, pulleys, spacers and brackets for the front end is trying. An F1 is not designed to go much more than 65 MPH stock. Sure it can be done, but real world means it will probably spend most of it's time at lower speeds. Torque rules down there, so either gear it down with a small block and rev it, or put in a big block set up to stay under 4000 RPM. The biggest hurdles in any swap are clearing the steering and frame crossmember, firewall issues, exhaust and having enough room to keep it cool. Building mounts once the engine/trans location is determined is fairly simple, wiring should be pretty easy, a driveshaft can be built. Figure out how big a radiator you can stuff in there, and that may tell you a small block is the answer. If you can stuff a 385 series (429/460) in there along with a radiator that will keep it cool and get the starter out and run exhaust, that would be a blast! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=264039&showall=1 FE motors are spendy to rebuild, and can be tougher to find cheap in a donor. A 400M is going to need at least a timing chain (not a bad idea in any swapover) to get out of it's way. They can be made to fly, but for a straight drop-in, there are better choices....
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