Improve or shoot down my idea!

yes sir, I did misunderstand I guess.
You are correct, a separate line for the fuel to add to the NX. totally separate since it goes to a plate below the carb, so that line can stay purged and pressurized with the 112 at all times with the selonoid holding it.
The engine fuel is the switchable line and a switching valve located close to carb to switch from the regular fuel to the 112 fuel, click a couple of switches for the electric pumps, should be easy to do really, and just play with the timing in cab as well. in a minute or less, the fuel will be to the carb (not a 1/4 tank like said earlier).

shouldnt even need a manual fuel switching valve to reach from inside the cab since I could use an electric one from a junkyard that was used on the bigger trucks with dual tanks. should be an easy build and actually have useful merit.

 

excuse me , you as well have no idea what my resume is.
This was a simple question I posed, not even looking for "answers", just ideas.
The motor you decribe will obviously not live on 93, the motor I described is totally streetable on 93 and WILL benefit from the use of 112 at the correct times if set up properly. simple and done with it.
you want "constructive', read the thread again, I've contributed plenty in the direction of the thread request.
thanks for your contribution as well.

 

The switching valve you want is a BWD brand part #V08084. I think it cost around $120. This valve allows fuel to return to the corect tank. Some of them only have one return line and would put a little 112 in your regular tank and a little 93 in your 112 tank. The switch between the two won't be immediate but the closer the valve is to the carb the sooner it'll make a difference. You will need a pump on the other tank and if you are gonna switch while the engine is running you'll want to make sure the pump is on before you switch it or it'll die.

 

excellent! thanks for the valve info.
I was planning on installing the valve as close to the carb as possible w/o it looking like a rats nest of hoses. I also plan on two electric pumps, a small one on the 112 tank would do fine.
Thanks again.

 

I agree. This comes from a guy that tried to do a dual fuel street-blower tune that resulted in 16 piston skirts laying in the pan.

HUGE amount of risk inherent to dual fuel setups.

Honestly I think a secondary methanol injection system is a much better option for a low octane, high detonation setup. Once I get some piston skirts back into that engine will let you know for sure!

 

thats awesome thinking. real world, my motor isnt mean enough for the 112, its just available and has more octane than the 93 , and the motor could definately make more power when tuned for it.
On the blower car I had, dual fuel tune was easy, as stated previously by another poster, I had maps created on the dyno, these maps were created using the data from the dyno and the wideband and never had an issue. Just load the correct map with the laptop and your ready to play.
On the normally aspirated motor I have built now, simple timing change will help use some of the excess 112 octane, won't know a power difference until I get it on the dyno to do some playing and tuning. With stock fuel, retard the timing and be knock free and happy.
Since its detuned for the street and pump gas, I'd bet I could gain 25 ponies or more with the extra timing and good fuel.
again, won't know real world numbers until we hop it on the dyno again.
I'll update with the results.

 

Threads like this make my head explode. Just how un-traditional is this subject?

 

If your car runs fine on pump gas, 112 probably won't make a noticable difference. Key word... PROBABLY

 

yes, I have heard others say the same thing, I have dyno proof otherwise though.
Its a fact, if the motor can handle the timing and fuel, it will indeed make more power on better fuel. not an arguable point as I have been shown otherwise on our dyno.
Its all about the tune.
The motor lives on 93 in de-tuned, retarded timing state. with it advanced and good fuel to burn, I'd bet money we make more power. I havent data on this particular motor yet, but previous playing and experimenting lends itself to gathering good data and learnig stuff.
I have countless and countless hours on the dyno, playing and learning, ****, on the boosted car, I even made 5hp by closing the spark plug gap to 28. doesnt sound like much, but 5hp is 5hp, and i'll take 'em.

 

Funny...

You ask people to shoot down your idea.

And when they do, you get angry...

 

then don't read it. Did your post help anything but to raise your post count?
We have and are getting some good info here, damn near everybody on this forum has a hotrod that lives on pump gas. call it what you will, but in the 40-50's, they played with mixing fuel, played with timing, heck, some even threw on multiple carbs and big cam, go figure
just because some don't know about it doesnt mean it can't happen and it isn't beneficial.

 

nope, not at all, if you notice, those that were shooting it down, were way off base and making statements via zero facts. (well, we did have a poster that said he tossed piston skirts, he had facts laying all around him, but his sounds like a mapping/fuel/ timing issue, as said, I pretty much have that part whipped)
This thread was for ideas on fuel systems and switching.
not to say the motor wont live, let me worry about the motor.
It would be different if I asked, "hey , will this hurt my motor?" but it seems that I didnt.
got any fuel switching ideas or comments? tanks etc?
I also stated many facts from MY previous experience that should explain that I pretty much know my motor and its abilities, I know tuning, I know fuel, I'm good if I toast a motor due to my negligence, With all my research and data gathering, experience etc etc I don't see that happening. now, can we get back to fueling issues?
k, thanks

 

Yep... I'm at the point since he knows everything why he even asked.

NO it's from years of building race engines, and dyno tuning them. An engine that will live on 93 and make power on it does not make more power with simple high octane fuel. Not in a noticeable fashion unless there is a power adder in the mix like a turbo or blower. You keep adding to what you originally asked. Either give all the details up front or shut up with your drama games.

 

...or nitrous.

He's got a wet kit for the engine.

I think that BWD valve is what you need. I was going to recommend it but someone already beat me to it.

 

The only Hot Rodder I knew that was constantly daydreaming about dual fuel setups was also the type of guy who'd drive all over town to find a pump that sold gas for 1/2Ct less.

So I figured he was just too cheap to put the good stuff in his car, and I never really listened...

Sorry... If I did, I'd have some great information for you right now...

 

at which point it's more about the nitrous and extra fuel and not that the fuel be 112.

 

That's what I was thinking.

It sounds like your going to do it no matter what advice you get. So, instead of asking for advice then shooting it down because nobody knows what they are talking about, just do it and let us know how it turns out.

I have a feeling that if it turns out you were the one who was wrong we won't hear back though.

 

I'll never claim to match knowledge with anyone, but this seems to match up with all that I've seen and learned. You can have one or the other but I don't see the point of trying to do both.

 

hahahahha, good stuff.
drama games? I asked about fuel systems, most of what I have is "it wont work, yer' gonna blow the motor"
not at all what I asked, seriously, drama? seems as though thats all thats getting tossed in here.
not adding to what I originally asked, still on the fuel issue, doesnt matter on the motor, just wanted ideas on fuel issues.
I know for a fact it will make more power, as you said, I dunno how much more since we are not adding a power adder (boost) except nitrous.
Nitrous does indeed increase cylinder pressure, henceforth, the added fuel and octane would be nice.
I would even go so far as to guess w/o the nitrous and just a timing and fuel change, you would see some HP improvements, easy as pie.
re-read, I stated the same thing all the way through....yaaaawn.
drama.... hahahahhaha

why not lets all go over to the "twin 6" thread and tell him hes gonna blow one of those up too...don't try it, its a waste of time, its stupid, I dunno, I'm seeing a lot of these fine inputs in a lot of threads.
I stated no worries on the motor, just fuel feed ideas etc. same as the very first post.
btw, not getting mad at all, just wondering why so much negativity in all the threads lately.
bash away boys, I know ya dig it.

 

hahahha, awesome, k thanks.

 

no sir, i share what I learn, data is data, even if its not the data you was hoping to get.
point is, I will be running a higher cylinder pressure via nx, point was to ask about fuel systems, not constantly be told, it ****s and it wont work.
gosh, its just fuel and the valve id answer was a good one, I'm going to get it and as said earlier, I will have dyno data, good, bad or otherwise.

 

what

 

totally not true, now whether the motor will be using all that is provided with the 112, who knows. I do know that its better to have the octane there and if its happy drinking it, then so be it. heck, maybe only real value would be 103 octane or 106, who knows, but with 112, its readily available for change (yes, I can afford it, thanks), it has more than enough to cover whatever my motor could realistically use.
seriously, the octane is there to use if needed, I know a lot of folks who run de-tuned on the street and can make a change very quickly and easily to a meaner set up. I'm definately NOT the first person to run good fuel or de-tune for the street. The last time I did this was by pouring the 112 in the tank, the point of the thread was to figure a nifty set up that will allow for fuel change and timing changes on demand, then just wait for the fuel to cycle though.
why so much h***le? was an easy question looking for ideas.
lets get past the motor woes and get back to the subject at hand if possible. fuel delivery and switching.

 

Wow, not being a nitrous guy I don't fully understand. But why not just keep the 112 octane fuel separate as a secondary fuel system for the nitrous system only, and leave the standard primary fuel delivery system alone. Seen plenty of them do it this way and it's my understanding that it works quite well.

If you were worried about detonation you could use a stand alone knock sensor to trigger a methanol injector.

 

Fair enough and sorry for derailing. I'll be curious to hear the outcome on this one.

Why not just run two fuel lines with two separate electric pumps? Switch A for regular unleaded, Switch B for your higher octane? T them together at a fuel block, then into your carb setup??

 

BINGO!thanks indeed, thats a spiffy unit. I think I will do the 112 for the spray only, seems easier and also don't have to wait for the 112 to run through the carb bowl etc etc. The ignition I have will allow for a preset advance or retard, so i can set the timing to adjust during spray only.
perfect , thanks again.

 

Heck, when switched, you could make one pump go on and the other go off, and use the check valves to keep the fuel heading in the right direction, that way your not mixing to much fuel, only at the "t" and rail. We still have the "run the fuel bowl through" issue, but thats not a terrible biggy.. timing could be dealt with in cab with the flick of a switch.
neat idea indeed, basically was my orginal idea, 2 tanks, 2 pumps with a switcher valve, and with your idea, no switcher needed, just have a check valve in each line to make sure the fuel doeasnt go the path of least resistance, back to the other tank and mix or possibly overflow the small one.
safe? I dunno, putting a lot of faith in a check valve.

thanks for the thinking though, its always better to get a lot of ideas and work from there.

I think I like the idea of making the good fuel for the nitrous selonoid only, that way your always pressured up and ready, the fuel never mixes and no worrys with back feed issues and no valving and minmal hosing to mess with and hide.

 

That sounds a bit like what I'm doing with a Off Topic build right now.

351W in a German Capri, with an old Draw Trough Turbo setup ( Accel )

I might run into detonation problems, so I stuck a Nitrous Plate under the adaptor.

I'll block off the Nitrous part, and plumb a 50/50 alcohol/water mix on the fuel side.
Triggered with a boost sensitive switch...

 

I built a turbo'd Harley 1200, with Nallin performance big bore cylinders, 585 cams, stage 2 buell xb heads, Warner-Ishi RHB-52 turbo and a mikuni 42, and thunderheart programmable ignition, tuned it with a wideband and laptop also, made nasty power.
I was the first in the country to beat the ignition and put boost on the 04 and up evo's.
also one of the first in the country to make 500 street driven hp out of the 2.4 dodge.
I likes boost and that car your building is going to make you grin so hard your face is going to hurt. just wait and see.