How are you guys doing the firesuit? A friend closed his shop and "donated" several (new) single layer one piece suits to me, I've never done this before- so, how do you guys wear 'em? plain ol' skivvies underneath, jeans and t-shirt, nomex undies? I gotta get my s**t together if I'm comin' in August
That's a personal question that I don't feel comfortable answering. (Just Kidding) It depends on how they fit and if you have a good place to change. I sometimes wear the bottom half like jeans all day, with a T shirt. If you have a one piece set, I would hope they would be large enough to wear some clothing underneath.
SoCal's a well watered desert so it's very temperature related out here. Far too much "bake" in Bakersfield so few folks wear the suit around up there. Palmdale was no better, and the new Fontana's 40 acres of blacktop out in the scrub. Lee wears his one-piece with a light shirt and the top open & rolled down with the arms tied around the waist, rather like a morning jogging sweater later in the day. If I had to wear a one-piece I'd likely put up with the heat of shirt & jeans under and shuck it quick at the far end before heading back to the pits. I also usually wear a weed hat in the lanes and don't swap to the bucket 'til I have to (I stow the hat on the floor). Even a slight breeze makes me glad I run an open car. Nobody, and I mean nobody, ever sees the speedo .........
to keep the peace at our track, we are doing the following. track owners and tech folks want to see you making a good effort (at least in our experiences). Seems as though there are a few that have had success running on outlaw tracks with less equipment. We have to adhere pretty closely to NHRA, IHRA guidelines or we don't get to run. I think it varies a smidge from place to place. Look like a pro, you'll be treated better in the tech line. Show up like Bert Munro in the movie Worlds fastest indian, and you'll draw unwanted negative attention to yourself. All you want is track time (so do what you gotta do to get it), leave the politics to other people. 1- Full-faced helmet with face shield meeting Snell 2000 or later. 2- Head sock or skirt on helmet or neck collar to cover the skin area of the driver's throat. 3- SFI jacket meeting 3.2A/1 minimum. 4- SFI gloves meeting 3.3/1 minimum. 5- Arm restraints. The driver's safety gear is based on a number of things such as E.T. and MPH, however they are also based on the body style, type of fuel, firewall material, etc. Open bodied cars do require more gear at lesser E.T. and MPH. They want to see more safety gear, because in the event of an engine "incident" hot oil is likely to end up on the driver... not the windshield. I'm cool with all that. My "spirit" is protected.
Obviously we're fully suited and belted by the time we hit the end of the lanes (these days you have to be into a bit of B & D to go racing). Could've mentioned that I guess. Wouldn't mind running '50s style but somehow I doubt we'd get staged that way. Though I'd certainly love the lineman's face ....." ".
I was planning on the rest of the whole getup- real racing gloves, shoes, arm restraints, full face helmet, neck brace. I agree with what was said-- show up looking like a professional--just wasn't sure about the "hidden details".
Chrome studded black leather sfi 30 thong, 4130 cup (hand polished). Whatever's comfortable. You could go skinny dripping below, the suit doesn't depend on any other protection.
I've been poring over my 2008 NHRA rulebook regarding protective equipment and of course, it isn't real clear. Vector's suit reference is from the General Regulations for E.T. cars running 10.00 and slower. However, if you go to the E.T. Section & look at the clothing rules there, there are some differences. 1. Lots of helmets are ok. Must be full face shield. In the General Regs there is a provision for a breather mask and goggles, if you want to look old school. 2. Neck Collar only mentioned for cars 9.99 and quicker. 3. There is no category in which our cars fit in order to determine the suit, gloves, head sock and shoes that might be required. Upon further digging, I asked myself, what might HA/GR's be considered, classwise? There are a few choices: Altered, Econorail, or gas dragster. All three classes have provisions for front engine, open bodied, naturally aspirated (carbs for those of you in Rio Lindo) cars. 1. Helmet There are 8 helmet specs. that are ok. All full face shield. 2. Collar SFI 3.3 required. 3. Jacket & Pants SFI 3.2/5 4. Gloves SFI 3.3/1 5. Boots/Shoes SFI 3.3/5 In the Econo Dragster and Altered requirements, for front engine cars, it specifies a SFI 3.3 head sock or SFI 3.3 skirted helmet. Curiously not mentioned in the Gas Dragster requirements. I suspect it is a requirement for Gas Dragsters and they simply forgot to put it in that section. It would be helpful if Altered Pilot would jump in and talk about what ANRA looks for when "teching" a HA/GR driver.
Comments from the SDRA familiar would be helpful as well. I read their rules, and seem to remember the neck brace and arm restraints.
SDRA rules are posted on tulsaracewaypark.com /forum/nostalgia # 9 – DRIVER SAFETY Driver must wear full face helmet and at least a single layer fire retardant jacket or suit. Jeans or fire retardant pants and leather shoes, NO TENNIS SHOES. Neck, arm restraints, gloves and a 5 point NHRA / IHRA approved safety restraint harness that is SFI approved and up to date is required. This works for us.
thats sure a lot of stuff to wear to go as fast as a ford escort. dressed up for top fuel rolling like a honda. whatever it takes,i guess.
FWIW an old racer once told me "DON'T WEAR ANYTHING SYNTHETIC UNDER THE FIRE SUIT" (yes he was yelling at the time, does that make him 'old yeller?" ). I make it a point to wear cotton undies and 100% cotton T shirts, unless I'm wearing the fire retardant stuff (depends what I'm running, I've got Carbon X on the way for B-Ville). Oh, I ignore the flamability of the elastic in the waistband on my undies, I figure if that is the only thing there I can live with the chance of an extra 'birth mark' for the necessary 'retention' of that particular article of clothing (did I mention that PBI tends to Chaife there? dunno about Nomex or Carbon X as I have yet to repeat that particular mistake). Not gosphel, not the final word, just my own oppinions based on what I've learned and personal experience. Take it for what it's worth.
Let me help you fellows out a little. Weekend drag races that are run under the sanctioning of NHRA, but are run by the local track officials without NHRA being in complete charge of the event are run under E.T. Handicap rules. This is a catch-all for cars, motorcycles and trucks of all types and descriptions. There are two sections to E.T. racing. The first part lists rules down to 7.50 elapsed time. The second part of the section, Advanced E.T., lists rules from 7.49 to 6.00. I will only list driver equipment, nothing about what the car requires. I will only show equipment down to 7.50 elapsed time. If a driver is going faster than that, let's hope to hell he knows the rules. CLOSED BODY sedan/hardtop car/truck with all windows, windshield, back glass in place. Cannot run with windows down or missing. All participants: Full-length pants, short or long sleeve shirt, closed shoes and socks. No shorts, no tank tops, no open toe or open heel shoes or sandals. Synthetic clothing (rayon, nylon, etc.) not recommended. 13.99-10.00. Helmet, closed or open face. Snell or SFI approved only. D.O.T.-only helmets are not legal for NHRA competition. Lift up the padding from the sides or back of the helmet and search for a label that is attached directly to the white foam impact material. The Snell sticker will be about 3/4" x 3" and will say M2000, M2005, K2005, SA2000 or SA2005. Any other Snell stickers are obsolete. The SFI sticker will be white and about 1" x 1" and will say 31.1A, 31.1/2005, 31.2A, 41.1A, 41.1/2005 or 41.2A. Any other SFI stickers are obsolete. The words "Snell Approved" on the back of the helmet mean nothing. The tag must be present on the interior of the helmet or it's junk. 13.99-10.00, fire jacket meeting SFI 3.2A/1 all non-OEM supercharged, non-OEM turbocharged or nitrous equipped cars with OEM or minimum 0.024" steel firewall. 13.99-10.00, fire jacket meeting SFI 3.2A/5 and gloves meeting SFI 3.3/1 all supercharged, turbocharged or nitrous WITHOUT OEM or minimum 0.024" steel firewall. (fiberglass or aluminum firewall). 11.49-10.00, fire jacket meeting SFI 3.2A/1 in all naturally aspirated, OEM supercharged or OEM turbocharged with OEM or minimum 0.024" steel firewall. 9.99, quicker. Helmet, full-face mandatory. Shield permitted. Goggles prohibited. Snell M2000, M2005, K2005, SA2000, SA2005. SFI 31.2A, 41.2A. SFI 3.3 neck collar or SFI 38.1 HANS device. Collar or HANS mandatory at 135 mph regardless of E.T. (author's note: The collar serves two purposes, preventing the head from being pivoted and preventing fire from going up inside the helmet. If using a HANS with no collar, a SFI 3.3 Nomex head sock or SFI 3.3 skirt built into the helmet is MANDATORY to protect the driver's noggin from fire. If the 3.3 tag is missing from the sock or skirt, it's junk.) 9.99-7.50, or exceeding 135 mph, fire jacket and pants meeting SFI 3.2A/5, SFI 3.3/1 gloves. 9.99, quicker, any vehicle supercharged or turbocharged on ALCOHOL, fire jacket and pants or firesuit meeting SFI 3.2A/15, SFI 3.3/5 gloves and SFI 3.3/5 boots. 9.99-7.50, fire jacket and pants or fire suit meeting SFI 3.21/15, SFI 3.3/5 gloves and SFI 3.3/5 shoes or boots if supercharged, turbocharged or nitrous WITHOUT OEM or minimum 0.024" steel firewall. (fiberglass or aluminum firewall). Any vehicle with automatic transmission in driver's compartment and no floor covering transmission, fire jacket and pants or firesuit meeting SFI 3.2A/15, SFI 3.3/5 gloves and SFI 3.3/5 boots or shoes. OPEN CAR..... 11.99, quicker. Arm restraints required. (author's note: shoe strings or rope do not qualify as arm restraints. Also, the restraints should be placed as close to the hands as possible and still allow full control of the car and operation of all controls. The whole idea is to keep the arms below the roll cage so they don't get chopped off in a rollover. Positioning the restraints up near the elbows is just stupid.) 13.99-7.50 Helmet, open-bodied front engine or rear engine, Snell M2000, M2005, K2005, SA2000, SA2005, SFI 31.2A, SFI 41.2A helmet and shield mandatory. Goggles prohibited. 9.99, quicker front or rear engine supercharged, turbocharged or nitrous, full face Snell SA2000 or SA2005 or SFI 31.2A helmet and shield mandatory. Goggles prohibited. 9.99, quicker or 135+ Neck Collar (same as closed car above). 9.99-7.50 front engine supercharged, turbocharged or nitrous with OEM firewall or 0.024" steel firewall, fire jacket and pants or firesuit meeting SFI 3.2A/15, SFI 3.3/5 gloves, SFI 3.3/5 boots or shoes. All other closed car apparel rules apply with the exception of the one above.
sorry Fridaynitedrags but I don't like to be called stupid I've raced latemodels dirt mods, midgets and mini-sprints and have always worn arm restraints at the elbows even had firesuits with them sewed in by the manufacture. Belted in the car the arm restraints are attached near the buckle there is no way you can extend your arms outside the cage. I wear underpants nomex socks and underwear plus the spec firesuit
ha ha! just looking at my immediate future. that kia that just beat me must be on the bottle! well , i guess john force is safe for another year.
Since I am a retired Fire Fighter I want to add to this. Use no rayon or nylon or any synthetics because in case of a fire they melt. I have seen people who have been burned and all their clothing is stuck to their body. Wear cotton or any natural cloth under your fire suit. Of course nomex under is good. Roy
Here is how I look at it. If the stupid car flips (blown tire, busted water hose, other driver veers into your lane, you swerve to miss some dufus stopped in the shutdown area, etc.) you cannot keep your arms from flinging out, because of centrifugal force, and being mangled between the the roll bars and the track. It is impossible to imagine how much money you would pay for a set of arm restraints at that moment. If you get even a small engine fire (at, say, just 80 mph) you are going to have about 10 to 12 seconds of blowtorch-heat and flames to deal with. A firesuit buys you time to get the damn thing stopped and get out. Leather shoes, or better yet, cowboy or engineer boots made of leather will be just fine. If you look well-dressed sitting in the cockpit I don't think a lane guy is going to bend over and look at what kind of footware you have. The most uncomfortable thing of all is the the helmet on a hot day so don't put it on 'til the last minute. Also, have a place to hang it on the rollbar while you are in the staging lanes. It is hard to operate the car and hold a bulbous helmet at the same time. The main thing to remember is you are at the track to take a pretty fast, open- air ride. You are not going to drive the car to New York. So, short-term discomfort is a small price to pay...skin is very expensive if you go to the hospital and try to buy it. Pain from burns never ends. The only time you can put this stuff on is before the run. You can't get it when something unforeseen happens.
On boots ....... I'll have to admit that I'm far more accustomed to my boots than the fire shoes and have subbed'em on more than one occasion. That said, my feet are literally on the other end of the car from my engine and gas tank. Don't know whether or not I'd wear my boots in a frontie. On arm restraints ....... The angle of the restraints in our car are such that if we wore'em at the wrists our arms would reach further out than when we wear'em at the elbows, I guess it depends on the installation. Whichever results in the best restraint would be the thing to do, naturally. I've seen more than one car with a small fan on the dash or cowl to keep a bit of breeze in your face whilst sitting in the lanes. We're seriously considering something of the sort for ours.
All of the tracks that I run at, including the outlaw 1/8 mile that I test/tune on, require that you run a fire suit, Approved helmet, gloves, neck brace and arm restraints. I have never been checked on the foot wear at any track that I have run on. If you use "common sense", which is beginning to be scarce these days, I do not think you would climb in an open car without any of the above. One thing that I have noticed is that I have ran down the track before with my arm restraints hanging on the outside of the car and have been told by the guy at the ET shack, make sure they are on the next run. Funny thing is that I would expect the guy at the starting line to point out the infraction before I left the line. I now have a routine that I follow and it should never happen again. As far as the neck brace, I think it is a good idea in any car that you are racing in to wear one. Most of the guys building these cars will find out that you will probably spend as much money on the safety equipment as they did on building the cars. Going back to the days when I ran pro-comp motorcycles, we had a saying about the helmets that we used to buy---"How much is your head worth to you". This would go for all the safety equipment that you have to buy for these cars. How much is your body worth to you??? Robert
Initially, I figured I'd feel rediculous wearing all the right stuff in a 145HP car. However, knowing I would be the only HA/GR showing up at the few tracks in my area, I expect the tech guys to be skeptical of the car. I built the car to be legal and I will wear the clothing and protective equipment as specified for naturally aspirated front engine Gas Dragsters and Altereds. Not only will I have good personal protection but the tech guys will see that I am making every effort to be conform to the rules. I'm hoping for a smile and a "thumbs up" from them, not an argument.
Works for me, I'd rather be uncomfortable sitting in the car than in the burn ward. Really dislike the idea of being burnt more than breaking bones. Broke some bones and they hurt and still remind me of it after 20 years when the weather changes, but don't have any interest in doing a comparison test with burns.
There's an old-time racer with a fuel altered who comes to the track a couple of times a year. When teching his equipment, I found a 3.2A/20 suit, 3.2A/20 boots, 3.2A20 gloves, SA2005 helmet, 38.1 HANS device, 3.3 neck collar, 3.3 Nomex head sock and 3.3 Nomex skirt in the helmet. I asked him if he was using the collar or the sock and he said "I wear all of it". I said, "well, you don't need the collar if you use the sock or skirt." He said "if you had been on your head and on fire in a fuel car like I have, you'd wear everything you could get your hands on too". His point was well taken and it generated a new respect for him in my eyes.
Butch, some great points to remember, and we completely agree on all points mentioned. A large chunk of our money went on safety gear, and whilst it hurt the wallet at the time, thoroughly recommend it. We have the boots, pants, jacket gloves, arm restraints, snell helmet, and some are using the neck brace, common sence as far as I'm concerned. You touched on a few other practical area's, they been 'temp storage of helmet', and how hot it can get as you sit waiting in the staging lanes....very hot and draining. Tommorrow I'll find some photo's of some simple examples a few guys here did. Cheers, Drewfus
yes with all the safety equipment on you feel over dressed but leave something off and you feel naked, I forgot my neck brace once went out for hot laps it felt so uncomfortable I went straight to the vendor and bought another one. one other thing keep your equipment clean I once saw a 3 layer suit burn the guy never washed it and it act like a wick.
ok, as mentioned, we have a few guys who have 'helmet racks' on the side of their cages, and whilst there's ANDRA talk of what's 'allowed' at the moment, within reason, I can't see a problem, and from experience, a good thing. The other thing which I'm in the process of making, is a simple pipe bracket mounted with a pipe clamp at the upper rear of section of my cage (in the centre, on the outside) that will allow my helper to drop into it a simple/cheap umbrella, which will provide a decent amount of shade, as, whilst it might seem like a stupid thing, when your stuck in the waiting lanes in the middle of a 35-40 degree c day, it gets hot sitting in all the gear. When it's time to GO, helper grabs the umbrella (remember that he/she is feeling teh heat as well), and go racing. my 2c, Drewfus
About neck collars.....they serve two purposes.... 1. Prevent the driver's head from being thrown forward and extending the cervical vertebrae. 2. Prevent fire from coming up under the helmet and burning the driver's noggin. If you're reading the rulebook, you'll install some sort of helmet cushion within 4" of the back of the helmet. This will prevent the head from going rearward far enough to cause injury. Now, it's up to the neck collar to prevent forward injury. You fellows who are using collars, turn the collar around with the fat part to the front and see if it works for you. Some fellows can abide it and some can't, but fat part forward will provide the maximum protection.
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