Flames w/ crossed tips & licks question

A friend of mine is getting ready to flame his 34 Ford fendered roadster. He leans towards the traditional style but he wants alot of the licks & tips to cross over & under other licks.

My question- who started this style & when?
Is it considered a trditional style?
I'm just curious.

Someone have an example of the 1st w/ this style lick?
I always thought this was something more recent but I've been wrong before.

 

Check out Zmans thread currently going on with Watson inspired flames.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=362769

 

As far as I can find, there weren't any (or at least not many) with crossed licks in the Fifties. There were three main styles during that time frame: crab claw, seaweed, and a third style for which I've never seen a name. Those without a name were the earliest style, with big thick flame licks (somebody tell me if they have a name).

 

Being they were new to the scene, we always just called them flames. There were no categories, they were just flames.

 

Thanks, hotrod1940. That's what I figured.

 

I flamed a car for the first time around '65 with crossed tips/over-under style. I remember my brother doing flame jobs in the mid 50's. It seems to me he was crossing tips back then. I have a picture (somewhere) of a 40 coupe he flamed while in the service... would've been '59 or '60. that had crossed tips.

Thing about flames is that there weren't any "rules".

Rich

 

From what I can tell, it looks like some of the cars Watson did with seaweeds, as well some others, had on it had over unders in the layout. Zman pretty much has it down on his Buick. Not a super involved layout, but still a few over unders.

 

Someone on the HAMB said they looked like worms. I agree with the other poster there probably wasn't a specific name for them. I think Rod Powell said early flames were primitive because you only had wide tape to work with, so big simple curves.

 

Watson did the LaVonne Bathke '58 Vette, it had crossed tips. As did the Watson flamed Pinky Richards '57 Vette. What year did he do those?
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Not sure anyone is still around from the origin of flames. They would set an age record if they were. So it all depends on the period you plan to build the car for and then I'm not sure it will matter that much. Just make it something you like.

Did my first flame job on a black 58 Impala convertible 40 years ago. Been doing them the same ever since. Most cars seem to favor the entire nose in flames going back a third to halfway.
I prefer bringing the flames out of the wheelwells as if the flames are coming from the engine compartment.
The famous flaming coupe from the California Kid had them coming from the hood louvers instead of the nose.
I'm still hung up on a traditional crab claw with some alternating overlap. Love it or hate it, but it suites me...... Hope you do yours to suite you too..............
I rattle canned the flame I figured I wanted on the car I have to paint yet just to get the scheme set and put it on paper so I can roll it out and transfer rather than keep working over the good paint till I'm satisfied. Still have to adjust a few licks for better balance, but getting there.......... Hope something here helps........

 

I've never liked flames that overlap. On a Hotrod it's really hard to get it right. I think you just need to go with what you like. Try different stuff and see what style moves you...

 

I saw yours- looks great. You gonna shade where they cross over/under?
So- Watson started the style of crossed tips? I'd like to see pics of both of those cars if anyone has them. Not that I'm going to try & change my buddy Tom's mind. It's his car & his check. Now personally- I think he's going about it all wrong but that's me. He's digging through magazines & the internet to find the style he wants & will then have his guy paint to match. I always thought you picked the artist who's flames you like & go with that.

I could hook him up w/ Dennis Ricklefs (he flamed my car) but he thinks the flames on my car look too fat & hates the green pinstripe.

I spent some time hunting through some mags of the 50's & I couldn't find 1 car w/ flames w/ crossed tips.

Doesn't really matter- just got me thinking.

His car isn't really following any build style, he's just building what he always wanted.

 

I found the 58 Vette pics. Mag is dated 12/59

 

see if any of these are to your friends liking. I did these at my shop in Santa Ana.

 

Seems to me I remember Von Dutch saying in an interview once that flame licks should never cross over one another.I have seen(and done a few)that way and I have mixed feelings about them.I feel they look best if there is no outline on them if they cross but rather a subtly airbrushed shadow to define the crossover.I also like traditional color fades(white-yellow-orange-red)and do not like "ghost"flames.Ditto true flames.JMHO

 

One i did a few weeks ago

 

I agree on the fade- but I couldn't do white. Not a fan of car's w/ a white nose, but that's just me. So- we started w/ yellow- to orange & to red.

Also- hate ghost, true, tribal.

 

•crab claw
•seaweed
•****py primitive

hahahahaaaa

Another vote for no crossovers, I love flames that have a great flow but do not cross over each other, and also are not too patterned.
The best are layouts that are different left to right but most would swear they are the same....but they gots to flow.

 

What do you call this flame style?



I thought perhaps it was a vinyl wrap deal - like they do on vans and big truck trailers, but after seeing a similar pattern in the middle of a hood on another car, I'm not sure.

May have been my imagination, but on the car in the pic it did look like all of the front clip was vinyl wrapped.

Long as we're at it, could someone post some examples of crab claw, seaweed and oher types?

 

Here are some different flames on my old '52

 

Sorry for the non-trad content, but it's my sister's car and we painted it for her. Not sure what you would call the style to be honest. There is one cross over, mainly due to how the flames drop from the hood down the fender.

 

True fire. The only problem with true fire is the artist and the amount used. It's definately not a "some's good more's better" thing. Subtle accents rule when using it and frankly I think it's best on bikes and racecar only apps. I like it and I'm good at it, it's not traditional, but it had to develop to just that, true fire. And yes, vinyl wraps may completely kill the art form. Here's a scoop I did for my bud's racer:

 

Vinyl wrap is to custom paint
as
Helvetica vinyl lettering is to sign painting
as
Boys to Men is to Procul Harem
as
Perez Hilton is to Paul Lynde


Gotgas, your sister's car is *****in'.

 

Maybe I need to clarify that what I posted is not vinyl. It's free-hand airbushed with home made hard masks (dozens) for the sharper edges.

 

I like flames ( if they are done right ) The one picture below that simulates a 3D flame is really different. I wish I took more pictures of the whole car. Crossovers definately need to be shadowed with an airbrush. I think pinstriping around them makes them look finished.

 

Perez Hilton is to Paul Lynde


Best quote I've heard in a long time.

 

I caught that, just that my guess on the 57 Chevy in my pic was perhaps vinyl wrap, but I found no evidence of vinyl near sharp edges on the inside of the front clip.
Looks too like the front clip may have been Carbon Fiber.



Very artistic on the freehand "True Flames."

I wonder how some True Flames would look inside a regular flame job.

Not in the whole flame, rather at the tips and along the edges.

Maybe part of the fade process....

 

Its called realistic or true fire.

 

I did these on an Apache last winter.