Hi Guys, Thinking about ignition for the 286 being put together for me by FlatOz of Flathead Garage. I have a stock crab dizzy which seems in good condition but will get the usual points and condensor replacement. Is this the best option however? Some of the options FlatOz and I have discussed is: 1. Stock dizzy (will this handle the higher comp and rev range this motor will see? 2. Stock dizzy triggering an MSD box (will the stock dizzy cap handle the higher current? Will the MSD die if run with a generator and mechanical voltage reg? 3. MSD electronic dizzy + box (same questions regarding gen and mechanical voltage reg) 4. Mallory electronic dizzy (generator and mechanical voltage reg issues?) 5. Mallory dual point dizzy Let me know what you think... Danny
Hmm... pondering the same questions meself daniel apparently the reddish brown caps are better at handling high voltages than the black ones.. Im considering the original points triggered electronic option, but have to ask Richard at scorcher about the Generator issue. the 8BA dizzy he did for me worked fine with a Gen, and that used a later falcon Bosch module, with a reluctor pick up. Richard (****) at scorcher ignition Nunawading,is the most knowledgable guy about this stuff, Half an hour at the counter with him will find you the best, and cheapest, solution.
Hi Ben, Looking forward to the beers tomorrow If the stock dizzy will do the job them I'm happy to run with that. Its certainly going to be good enough to break the motor in and run with for a while. I was thinking about one of these: its a solid state bosch voltage reg that is a Volkwagon part, so right up your ally mate. This would certainly remove the reg part of the issue and I cant see for the life of me why a battery plus generator wouldnt supply the constant amperage and voltage required to run and MSD box etc. http://www.airheadparts.com/viewDetail.asp?idProduct=7337
it really depends upon how you intend to run the engine! Normal running the stock distributor will do fine, it is only when you are using the engine hard that you need more ignition. You going to run it hard and long, spend the money. You going to drive it round town and once in a while floor it, don't worry about it. there is always a desire to run the expensive stuff, but at normal speed and usage you do not need the extra stuff to fire the plugs. Try it stock, if it works, fine, it it doesn't go up a stage, Remember that they flatheads ran fine at about 200 hp with a 6 volt battery and standard ignition. Mainly because they seldom ran above 9 compression ratio. traderjack
I bought a Pertronix "Ignitor" system on ebay for my 59 A-B with crab style dizzy. Haven't tried it yet, but it will all hide inside the dizzy. Bought it from Hondo's Vintage Parts. Can't find it on the Pertronix site, but I sure hope it will work. No external stuff that reveals the modern breakerless ignition. Anyone else heard about that? Best J.B.
didnt know they did one for a crab dizzy. Unfortunately a $700 towing bill from the desert into LA has turned me off pertronix for life. I asked richard about internal triggering in a crab dizzy and he believes he could fit a reluctor pick up in that operates off the original cam lobes..I dont see how that could be accurate enough considering how small and rounded thay are, but he ***ures me it works.will look into this further.
Ben, that would be good, as I did speak to **** when he built my dizzy for the roadster about them, at that time he said they couldn't do it. but that was a few years ago, last time I followed up, again he said no go. but I don't see how it can't be done. Anything can be done, its just finding the how. We Aussies really need to sort this out as the stuff ex US is not cheap. A local alternative would be a good thing, especially for after sales service, and Performance ignition are good at that.
I believe a MoPar Electronic igniton pickup and reluctor has been retrofitted into a crab distributor before, in fact I'm SURE Ive got pix stashed somewhere to prove it. So it is doibale and ultra reliable as well. Ill see what I can dig up. Rat
Rat, there is a website with a detailed how to, on an install that I think was mopar electronic stuff into a crab.. you jogged my memory but i cant remember what the site was.. I'll talk to Richard soon, as i have another 8BA dizzy for him to do for a customer.
The web site for putting a Mopar magnetic trigger into the crab distributor is here: http://home1.gte.net/wgmumaw/Distributor Conversion/DistributorConversionBills.htm Also its probably possible to trigger an HEI module with points, one of these days I want to experiment with that; it would make things simpler rather than going to all the trouble to modify the reluctor and pickup to fit in the confines of the crab distributor. It is nice however to be rid of the points altogether. Also note that the MSD cap can be used on the Ford crab, if the coil connection pointing up is not a problem for you.
RPM? well Psycho boi's currrent 8BA would have trouble hitting 4000.. he wont know what hit him with this new merc cranked 59. Good info on the MSD cap..thanks for the link too Bill M!! Knew it was out there somewhere.
If you don't drive a lot , use points.Simple and will always work. If you have a high mileage car , use a msd box with points.electronic regulator. It's a pain in the *** to take the distributor of the engine change points , remount. If you go Mallory throw the condesator as far away as you can! On two distributors they gave up after 600miles. Use gerneric, i use Bosch. Point ignition will always bring you home and this is what a simple hot rod should be alike.
Contact GMCBubba on here, he will help you out. He has everything you need and can answer all your questions! Tell him I sent ya!
My personal opinion is that all electronic modules other than MSD are ****... I'd run a stock dual point with some good domestic (sorry U.S. made... Do they make this stuff in Aus?) points and an MSD box to reduce the load on the points and increase the spark... Not period perfect, but neither are the MSD/Pertronics/Mallory solutions, and it's pretty easy to hide the MSD box. You might want to keep your eye out for a good Mallory cap, but I think a good domestic (if they can still be had) cap will handle the juice, and a 'good' regulator should be fine for the MSD... I ran one in a '49 ford with a regulator and it was fine, also in a 60 T-Bird... I should say, that I've had good luck with the Chrysler electronic modules too... But just the ones that came from a Chrysler, not the 'Chrysler-like' stuff... I like points better because they're fairly easy to replace on the side of the road, and they let you know whey they're going out... Anybody that's been going down the road and had their electronic ignition module go out, can tell you there's no warning.... Running good.... Then nothing. It can be really frustrating.
Nice timing Dan as this is something I'm starting to look into too. My crab dizzy has been modded to take a single Bedford/triumph set of points and condensor. Its been ok but I'm not entirely happy with the system. Resistor failed and was unable to get exaclty the same one and have been fighting with it ever since. Jase and I have spoken briefly on trying to mod something to fit but haven' looked at anything yet. I'll be watching to see what you may come up with or offering up any findings I make. I'm hoping to make it using local stuff for ease of repair. BillM thanks for the link, will do some reading.
Guys, Thanks for all of the great replies. I'm going to run the stock dizzy for the time being as its the path of least resistance! I know it will work with the gennie and mechanical voltage reg. I'll be looking to shake things up with MSD or what not after I get that stuff sorted out. Devil, how come you modded the stock dizzy - was it a performance issue or were you just trying to simplify the points? Danny
Was already done may have something to do with the whole 12v setup not entirely sure. The points in it are now harder to get than standard ones! Not something the smaller places stock have to go to the main warehouse to get them without waiting, yet Johns R&C stock all of the standard types...
Hi Devil, I dont think the dizzy has a problem with 12V - I know AdamF uses the stock setup with his 12V alternator with no issues. Has managed to beat the pants of my car every time I've tried to drag him off Danny
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