When it comes to building a cool old hot rod, are there any alternative to the flathead for a period correct rod. I love the flatheads, but what if you want something with more power? Did anyone back then use the olds "old Rocket" engine, or were there others?
The Olds Rocket and the Cadallic both came out with overhead valve engines in 49. A few of the older guys who had a Auto repair garage were able to put them is rods but most people in my class of 55 could only afford flat head Fords. I had two different friends who were older and used flat head Cadallic engines, one a channeled unchoped 34 coupe and one in a 29 model A roadster on a Zed frame, both were fairly fast but a good stock 50 Olds coupe could blow both of them off.
M, Many overhead V-8's were used back in the day. Nailhead Buicks, Cadillac..Ever hear of a Fordillac? Olds engine were used a lot...with the J-2 setup. Many choices are out there...do you have a Flathead for sale? Murph
Im just looking at all alternatives. I love flatheads but i also want a lot of power (if I ever need to show up some kid in an import). Did these olds and cad engines beat the flatheads? And if building one today from the ground up could I even find speed parts for them like whats available for the flathead?
Ray Brown pioneered the use of the Chrysler Hemi at the lakes in the early '50's......... I am a flathead guy through and through, but if you're looking for something bigger, I'd say go Hemi.... CB
What time period are you building toward? Prior to '49, Flattys were the big dogs. There were some that went in other directions, but not as much. Check Don Montgomery's books to see what was done and what appeals to you and fits your build and budget.
Studebaker made a sweet little V8 back then. They were used in quite a few rods. The Lycoming that Cord used got into a few rides, too, but they'd be hard to find now.
The nice thing about either Olds or Cadillac V8s is that they eventually were enlarged to 394 and 390 cubic inches, respectively, but still have the vintage look. '59-'64 Olds and '59-'62 Cadillacs are the largest of their breed.
i have heard of a few cars built in the late 50's with a jag 6. all dolled up they look sexy with the dual over head cams. and i think the blocks are basicly the same up to 86 or 87
I have an 8ba flathead that was built by Flathead Jack in Walnut Creek Ca. It has well over 300 H.P. and it looks great.
Up til 55 it was cadillac, then the true traditional engine was first a 265, then a 283 chevy with a Duntov cam and corvette valve covers. It was the engine above all others that was traditional in the fifties.
From everything I've read and people I've spoken to Olds, Cadillac and HEMI OHVs were the hot ticket in the mid-50s. The bigger, more powerful y-blocks didn't come out until '56-57, nailheads were fairly new and SBCs were brand new. To me it's about looks AND go power. I'm putting a 401 Buick in my '49 Ford coupe. I love flatheads, but to get close to the HP/torque a stock 401 makes, I'd need $25K for a blown Ardun flathead. It really depends on what car it's going in. If I built a 30's Ford, it would likely have a souped flathead because they look right and the cars are lighter. But to me flatheads just look lost in an early to mid '50s engine compartment. Just me. In my case, most guys souping up their '49-51 Ford in the mid-late '50s would NOT soup up the flathead. Not when a boneyard stock of 331s, 303s, 324s, 264s, 322s and various HEMIs were available. Just look at all the adapters you see for sale to bolt these to you stock '49-51 transmission. (no it wasn't always a good idea....)
I don't want to be a hater but, I was thinking the same thing. There must be some real trick stuff inside for an unblown flatty getting 300 hp on pump gas. That is incredible. Please tell us more about it.
merkery<SCRIPT type=text/javascript> vbmenu_register("postmenu_3956948", true); </SCRIPT> i hope thats not your 300hp flathead i the pic if so flathead jack ripped you OFF that motor might make 175 if your lucky...............
The first thing that comes to my mind (what's left of it), do you have a budget for the engine/trans? None of the flathead, Olds, Cad, Hemi will be inexpensive to build and get installed in your car. Actually you never mentioned what car you are planning to build. If you are on a budget...use the most traditional 50's swap ever done...a SBC. Dress it with early style intake, air cleanre, distributor, valve covers, etc. It will be plenty traditional and should run with the best of the big inch motors. Yes, they all beat the flatheads, until the SBC came out with 10,000 rpm potential and 200 pounds less weight.
period correct? what period do you want to be correct for? if it's a post war ( pre '48) then it should be the flathead. if you want an early fifties type, a guy with bucks would have had an olds or caddy. a late fifties type would have to have the chevy small block. here is a story i first heard about forty years ago, when i first started trying to build a `32 ford hot rod. my dad and his buddy eddie were both ford mechanics in the late forties thru mid fifties, and were what we would today call " gearheads". eddie never had any kids, so he could afford a nice new car. so, in 1954 he treated himself to a brand new olds V8, black 2dr hardtop. there was no state speed limit then in IL. only towns could set speed limits within their boundries. so they would do top end street racing out on the "open" road between towns. one night in `54 out west of chicago on route 64 before you get to st.charles, he picks a race with a hot rod`32 ford coupe. figures he'll kick his ass with his new oldsmobile. it wasn't long before the deuce just pulled away and left him. he couldn't believe it! when he caught up to the deuce in the next town, he yelled over to the guy " hey, what kind of engine do you have under your hood"? the guy yells back " the same kind you do". eddie is gone now, but the legend of the rocket 88 lives on.
Can't believe nobody mentioned the Packard V8. Was tons of them around back then and a lot of them in hot rods. Nowadays it would be hard to get speed parts for them but a big Packard doesn't need speed stuff anyway. Like the other guy said, too, was a Y-block Ford. True, most had Cadillacs, Olds, Buicks and Chryslers.
I agree that we need to hear more, as this must be a very rare build! musicmike927- why would you feel the need to show up someone in an import? The very fact that they are driving an import....
There must be some real trick stuff inside for an unblown flatty getting 300 hp on pump gas Never happened.
One reason Fords continued to "rule" (be favored by speed shop owners and magazines) was that no speed shop or manufacturer wanted you to find out that a 2 year old completely stock Cadillac or Olds would destroy a hand-built Ford - for less money. The McGurk, Wayne etc. people suggested simply buying a used G.M.C. 270, rather than choking your Chevy 216 to death. Only current posing favors things that don't work. Back then, these were not fashion statements, they were how to have a fast car if you had no money, and the methods were: 1. bigger engine 2. less weight "what will they think of my engine"? Are you kidding? Flathead engines that set world records (Jocko's Porting) did this with slightly above 200 hp, and this was not only arrived at after years of testing and breaking things it was fragile and very expensive. The fastest flathead engine you can make was inferior to a STOCK 1956 New Yorker engine. Nonsense? No, Don Garlits said so. His pickup truck with a stock junkyard Chrysler 331 was only slightly slower than his flathead rail. You don't have to "build" a nailhead, Rocket, Chizler etc. at all - the late 1950s stock engines with no speed equipment are beyond what Fords can produce. Cheap example: stock 1958 Saratoga polyspheric 354: 310 hp. Ford V8 310 hp is nitrous and a blower... for about 30 seconds. No one in 1955 said "I'm going for the traditional 65 hp Model B engine for the kewl factor". If telling the truth makes someone a hater, this country is going over the cliff.
Ya that and there was a billion of them around. I don't think anyone is saying that a flathead was faster then any later model OHV engine.
GMC 270-302 inline 6.Built right ,about 240 hp streetable HP and lots of torque. I would think early OHV V-8 had to struggle for that HP.
Well, it came from Flathead Jack. He's well known for talking big. 300 normally aspirated HP out of a flathead is all but impossible...I'll never say never, but this is clearly one of those times you'd have to prove it.
The Jalopy Journal
