History Miller Race Car Chassie Pictures/Info?

Anyone out there have any pictures of a 20's or 30's Miller race car ch***ie? Would love to see some detailed pictures or drawings of the frame and ch***ie either up close or with the body off.

Looking to build a poor mans reproduction, but need more information for the planning stage.

Thanks for the help.

 

Have you looked here?

http://www.milleroffy.com/Photo & Sound Gallery.htm

 

Here is one pic...

 

26T - I have been all over that site, still can't find any good bare frame or ch***ie shots - Anyone?

 

Get hold of the Miller Dynasty, there's loads of detailed drawings with dimensions in there, sorry I don't have a copy

 

I hear that the Smithsonian and Gordon White have archives of just about everything Miller And, I agree, Mark Dees' Miller Dynasty is a necessary tool for any serious Miller devotee. If you want build one anywhere near accurate, you gotta have that book.

 

I agree with previous posts, the Miller Dynasty by Mark Dees is the bible for Miller fanatics. The Miller Club will have it's annual event at Milwaukee in July. If you're serious, it's worth the trip.

 

Here's an interesting piece I found on the Smithsonian website -

The rules of racing -

Each racing category has its distinctive compe***ive goal, each with its own design rules. The rules dictate vehicle specifications such as engine size, overall weight, body style, ch***is arrangement, dimensional restrictions, and permitted technical add-ons. American racing has become codified in these rules, but the rules are always changing. The history of American racing and the wide diversity in forms of racing can be traced through the changing rules.

The rules sometimes changed for technical reasons, and sometimes for economic reasons. Some sets of rules are ordained by closely held governing bodies. Other sets of rules are established by elected governing boards or by larger, national or international organizing bodies (similar in structure to Olympic governance). In every case, however, the power to set rules comes from those who own the tracks or have the most money supporting the compe***ions.

Any set of codified rules creates a particular design envelope within which creative and well-funded players continually press limits, seek better design of component parts, and sometimes find a technical avenue not anticipated in the rules and thus prevail. By its nature, racing is out-and-out compe***ion—technological as well as on the track.

Throughout racing history, changes in the rules—for engine size, supercharging (or banning thereof), ch***is details, overall sizes and styles, fuel capacities—were frequent. Usually, when one participant or racing team started to dominate their races, those who collectively had more sponsorships at risk or who owned the tracks saw to it that the rules were changed to better equalize the chances of winning. Then the cycle began again.

An example of corporate sponsors forcing a rules change comes with our 1929 Miller “91” supercharged, front-wheel-drive car for the Indy 500.

The Miller was so fast that it began to dominate Indianapolis-type racing. The Detroit car makers threatened to pull out of the Indy 500, because it was too expensive to compete with the hand-crafted ‘high-tech’ of the exotic Harry Miller cars.

The track owner and Indy organizers changed the rules to “outlaw” superchargers and to change the size of the engines permitted in Indy cars. End of Miller dominance; welcome back, Detroit sponsors.


Miller “91”

This was one of the most celebrated race cars prior to World War II and is one of only two surviving Miler front-drives. Driven at Indianapolis by Ralph Hepburn, it is known as the "Hepburn Miller". "The pinnacle of the golden age of American auto racing"--This is how one automobile historian described the Miller 91 Packard Cable Special, one of 12 such racing cars built by Harry A. Miller. It boasted front-wheel drive, 91-cubic-inch displacement, eight cylinders, and a supercharged engine that produced more than 230 horsepower. Remarkably, though, it weighed only 290 pounds. This particular car was driven by Ralph Hepburn in the 1929 Indianapolis 500 and set speed records of 143 miles per hour in Europe.

 

Gordon white has many (or most) of the original Miller drawings. He can supply copies for a fee. I've seen (Maybe via a link on the Harry A. Miller Club website) a listing of everything he has. I'm thinking that, for your purposes, that's the best route. The Miller Dynasty would be helpful and is a nice "luxury touch" but I think accessing the drawings would do you more good.


ote=Levis Cl***ic;3789645]Anyone out there have any pictures of a 20's or 30's Miller race car ch***ie? Would love to see some detailed pictures or drawings of the frame and ch***ie either up close or with the body off.

Looking to build a poor mans reproduction, but need more information for the planning stage.

Thanks for the help.[/quote]

 

Another good book is "Miller", by Griffith Borgeson. It shows several ch***is prints.
Motor Books international has it.

 

Looks like I'll need to pick up some of these books -

 

This has been posted on a few sites:

 

FWIW the Miller frames were hammer formed on a cast Iron form, by hand.

 

Mac - Thanks for the drawing, very helpful!

Keep them coming

Enjenjo - Hand formed frames? The more I look into Harry Miller the more amazed I am with his innovation and attention to detail.

 

I know of an original Miller in hiding... free for the taking if you should so dare to take this mission? I'm in!

Only 300 miles from Virginia.



I may have some drawings and pics, I'll keep looking. I'm very excited about your project.

 

I'm in!!!

 

Levis,

Miller has been discussed on the HAMB a few times, but he really was the Bugatti of North America... however the reverse could be said as well- Bugatti took some of Miller's ideas as well. The drawing I posted is of the Packard Cable FWD. If you get Borgeson's book, you'll find that he bought the pair of them back from Bugatti, who had them in storage for years.

 

Michigan is not that far from Millwaukee, anyone who is really that interested in Millers needs to attend the Miller Meet once. I did, and I had a ride in a two man Miller.

 

Please do dig them up - I'll be looking forward to them.

 

One of my favorite Millers The Boyle Special - still looking for drawings or photos of the Miller ch***ie/frame work. Just look at the craftsmanship on the rear axle!

 

Page 52 of the Borgeson book has Leo Goossen's Miller 91 drawings from 1925.

Get the book- it's worth it!!!

You can also order any drawing you want from the Miller-Offy site.

 

You, if haven't already done it, should check the link for Zakiras Garage from the milleroffy.com website. They say they've got lots of patterns for Miller parts. I imagine that they, at no small expense, will make you anything you need. Most of the contemporary "Millers" I've seen, have been crafted together using recently made components; as much of the original stuff had been long ago "canablized" or thrown away. Notable exceptions to the modern day recreations, are the two Miller 91, Packard Cable Specials that Griiff Borgeson brought out of France. It's good you're studying and getting plenty of info (too much, is not enough). Always remember; planning, good work and craftsmanship is never out of style. And, by all means, forget the naysayers.

 

In further thought about your project, it seems to me (and others more knowledgeable than I) that Harry Miller was more interested in strength, durability and finish of his cars, than weight. He used some of the most exotic materials of the day; and demanded some of the most unique fabrication methods. Examples: His highly stressed components were machined from forgings. His axles were not commercial tubing; but, were machined steel alloy forgings, heated and bent over jigs. Practically all elements were pressed, shrunk, or bolted into place. Miller was said to have distrusted, and disliked the integrity and looks of welding. Harry required exquisite finishing; What wasn't painted, was highly ground, buffed and polished. Then, finished by bluing. A modern day constructor might be able to sus***ute "Parkerizing" for the bluing, to avoid corrosion problems. I don't think I've ever heard of an actual Miller produced car having chrome on important components.
Though Harry Millers shops turned out just about every item used in the construction of his cars, from frames to radiator cowls, and everything in between; in the late twenties, into the thirties, many other constructors and owners turned out cars using Miller's engines, parts, or designs. These were guys like Art Sparks and Paul Weirick, Clyde Adams, Herman Rigling, Myron Stevens (who'd made at least 16 bodies for Miller), Phil Somers, Emil Diet and "Curly" Wetteroth (to name a few). The aforementioned were just a few leaders of a cadre of guys who built poor men's race cars, in their garages, to do battle in the dirt "bullrings" of the day. Very few, if any, of these non-Miller builders, used Miller frames. Unless, as some did, they bought an old, obsolete original Miller; and remodeled it into a different car. Many used frames from stock cars. The use of Whippet and Es*** frames come to mind. Some used Ford Model T and Model A frames (pretty flimsy!). The early budget racers used Ford Model T, Model A and Model B engines. Some used Chevy engines. Most of the engines were four bangers. All of them were topped by highly modified cylinder heads. Reliability of these engines were always in question. They'd go like stink 'til they blew the bottom end! A couple of the West Coast builders, Sparks and Weirick in the main, claim to have discovered the virtues of using the 151 Miller Marine four banger to solve the problems of strength. Still, a good running Ford four banger, with perhaps a Winfield flathead, could pull away from a Miller engined car, out of a turn.
I attach some photos of a resurrected, unknown origin ed example of what somebody apparently ran of some of the dirt ovals in Southern California, seventy to eighty years ago. It's got a narrowed, shortened 1928/1929 Es*** frame.

 

See if these images work on this site:


http://s283.photobucket.com/albums/kk289/kerrav8tr/


http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk289/kerrav8tr/VP__1887.jpg

 

I will be using a shortened and narrowed 29 Chevy frame which appears to be similar in many ways the to Miller frame. Unfortunately funds wont allow for a Miller mill even if I could find one. Looking at either a Model B banger or a V8-60 flathead. I know the banger might be a bit more period correct but we're only talking a few years difference.

I am leaning towards the V8-60 since it will be such a light car.

 

Not a Miller, but drawings of a basic 30s dirt car, using Chevy rails, can be found here:
http://packmag.net/index.php?option=com_rsgallery2&Itemid=28&catid=6

 

That is one great article. THANKS!


Lewis, we went with the Ford four banger for many reasons. Foremost, being authenticity. I've not seen any early champ cars powered by the V8-60. Seems to me they came on the racing scene, mostly in the midgets. If you're going to run the car; and I mean RUN IT FAST; you'd probably be happier with a Model A or Model B. There seems to be a lot more variety of speed equipment currently available for the "banger". A five main girdle and a forged/billet crank, with a harmonic damper on the nose with let the "Banger" rev to limits you couldn't do with the "60". And, with the aforementioned bottom end, you can chose any cylinder head, valve timing, carburetion and compression ratio (13 or 14 to 1 for Alky?). There's good stuff (but not as readily available) for the Model T. And, finally, the torque of the "banger" is unbeliveable.

 

Not the one(s) under water, perhaps?
Dees knew about these cars but somehow managed to not include their resting place in their histories in his book.

But I digress...

 

The Gordon White book has been mentioned, but here is a link:

http://www.amazon.com/Marvelous-Mechanical-Designs-Harry-Miller/dp/1583881239/ref=pd_sim_b_3

It is about 1/10 the price of the definitive Dees book, but includes several helpful line drawings of the Miller rear drive ch***is and bodywork. It also includes a discussion of the twin cam heads (and later blocks) Miller and Goosen created for the Model A. These were ultimately manufactured by Cragar and Bell, and were marketed through the early fifties. I have never seen one, but the book has a photo.

A couple of other thoughts. If you want to reproduce the look and feel of a Miller single seater, you might consider tracking down a Jaguar or Alfa twin cam engine. A lot of Jaguar engines were displaced by Chevy and Ford V-8's -- this was a fad at one point -- so there must be some Jaguar 6's lying around loose. The Jaguar has a long stroke and a lot of torque. The Alfa is a high winding engine, as were the Millers, and it might be possible to cannibalize the whole drive train.

 

This year's Miller Club Meet will be on July 10th and 11th at the Milwaukee Mile http://www.milwaukeemile.com/OtherEvents/Domus.asp#MillerMeet

I've attended this meet the past two years and it's well worth it if your a fan of vintage race cars. You're allowed to walk through the pits, view the cars up close, and the owners are some of the friendliest folks I've met. The sound of some of these cars running on the track is worth it alone. Some owners give rides to bystanders, so you might get lucky.