Hotter plugs for today's "gas"?

I finished rebuilding a Johnson 3hp outboard and went to a lawnmower shop to pick up some new plugs. The original (1953) was a J6J. The seasoned shop owner said I should go with an 8J8 (hotter) because that's what all the mowing service guys are doing to cure their problems on older mowers due to the ****py gas. Should we do this in our vintage motors (along with hardened valve seats)? BTW the new administration is moving toward 15% ethenal.

 

Correction: I just went on line and found that they're pushing for 20% Ethenol! I wonder if the US car companies are hoping for it to screw up the existing fleets so they can get folks to buy new cars. Also, I was watching American Chopper last week (nothing else on) and they were building a bike for someone in Europe. They had to use fuel injection on it because CARBURETORS are now banned in Europe. They also had to make it super quiet to p*** noise specs. With the new administration's anti-pollution legislation FI will be the only way to get there.
Does anyone have any advise on dealing with this Ethenol in our rides? If not let's close this thread to make room for more "fun" stuff.

 

Theres a pretty good lead additive at walmart that I use. It does seem to help a little. I also fill up at the local airport with 100LL from time to time.

 

If the octane goes up with the alky, it can be a good thing. Engines can then be built with more compression to take advantage of it.

 

Ive always run a hotter plug on my engines for this reason. The new fuels are more oxygenated and the additives only add to it.

Ive found slightly hotter plugs will stay cleaner and get a better burn with these fuels.

Rat

 

On the lawnmower shop note. The guys around here are putting Sta-bil in lawnmowers. They say the new gas is destroying the barbs. An Old timer hear is running it in his car. I havent seen a prblem in my cars yet. I have seen ton of fuel pumps gooing out in later model stuff at work. I am all for more alcohol. More timing, more compression etc. but the new gas seems ****pier. Ive drained several tanks due tu bad gas causinfg missfires and poor drivablilty issues so I'm not gonna start messing with things just yet.

 

please, can we?

 

Why man, is today's fuel not "traditional" enough for ya ?

The quality of fuels has definitely decreased, whilst the price has increased. Sound right to you?

If there are issues with fuels - then what better place to discuss its effects than on the HAMB?

Could save a lot of gearheads big problems down the track.

Whaddaya think?

Rat

 

Bought a New Chainsaw, used it for less than a year, it quit one day, took to a shop as it was still under warranty. The piston had seized, it was replaced under the warranty then the repair shop guy told me to run 89 or higher octane as the cheap gas will burn up the motor........ and void the warranty...he also said that the info is not in the owners manual and a lot of people are finding out the hard way. He also said because of the quality of gas being more ethanol, it is tearing carburetors on a lot of lawn equipment. I have found also the 64 Valiant my girl drives daily hates the blended gas they sell around here, I have to put gas treatment in order for the car to not ping and knock.....this a rebuilt motor, 170 slant six with a one barrel carb, I can get the same grade gas over in Indiana and never have problem, but the gas in Louisville is a blend and it is **** gas.......

 

I used ethanol gas in my bike and it screwed up my carb. It left a dry dust that clogged my needle valve. What i do now is put in marvels Mystery oil in the tank with every fill up i know contains Ethanol. I also do it inmy cars. 54 Chevy and 07 Honda and toyota. The powder cloggs up everything.

 

The increased and more widespread use of E85 (15% ethanol) is why the automakers have done away with carburators and are using fuel injection systems. If you have a plug fouling problem with lawn mowers and chainsaws, hotter spark plug heat ranges is just a band aid and the plug will still foul out it will just take longer. Modern lawn mowers have high intensity electronic ignition systems just like modern automobiles and do not foul plugs on pump gas. I used VP 108 octane C-12 racing fuel in my old Sears lawn mower and it ran like a new one for ten years. I finally retired it and purchased a John Deere lawn mower with a Kawasaki engine on it. Kawasaki engine is the best lawn mower engine made and was running great when I retired that one! Unfortunately, the John Deere lawn mower ch***is was made in the U.S. and it fell apart after ten years.

The problem with high intensity ignition systems is spark plug erosion, not fouling. That is why platinum tip spark plugs were introduced and iridium tipped spark plugs were introduced for turbocharged engines. Thos type spark plugs last for 90 to 100 thousand miles. That is mainly because it is no fun for the car owner to change his own plugs in the congested under hood areas of the modern cars.

Methanol will raise the octane rating of pump gas but modern engines do not need high octane pump gas. Raising the compression ratio for higher performance has diminishing returns as the ratio increases...unless you have a long duration camshaft that will make use of the high compression ratio. Long duration camshafts are polluters and those kind of camshafts should never be used with no lead pump gas no matter how high the octane number is.

 

dsiddons,
If I remember right I was once told that using a lead additive in anything with a catalytic converter would cause it to swell up and constrict thereby self destructing.
Anyone got any input on this? Thanks

 

Forget about ethanol. According to an interview in The New York Times the new administration is moving towards one car per family.

I'm not sure which will be first, how much money they will let you earn, what you can set your thermostat at, or how many cars you can own.

At this rate, if "the new administration" has their way, we'll all be working for the man wearing black pajamas and riding black bicycles.

 

Well, E85 is 85% Ethanol 15% gasoline. (Just enough gas to light it off when cold) Very high octane and you can use up to 14:1 compression. The down side is that it will EAT everything in an old car unless you plan for it and use special carb/pump/tank/lines, and your mileage will suffer. My lawn tractor will barely run with the 10% stuff so I switched to pure gas. We have several stations around here that have gone back to "pure" gasoline with ZERO Ethanol.

 

I think this discussion is right on target cause the carbs and fuel pumps on most of our old mills weren't designed for the new fuels. We NEED to learn all the latest info on how to keep em running or they will just become expensive furniture! As far as the issue of the govt dicatating ethanol content and number of cars owned etc, I got one word --- VOTE !

 

The Fact is that any alcohol based fuel is less efficient and corrosive. I other words it take 3 times as much alcohol to go the same distance on the same amount of pure Gas. That is why all the small motors like weed eaters and chain saws are siezing up. The production carbs are just not jetted rich enough for the combination fuels.As far as the corrosive part that can be elimatated with additives. Sunoco makes a product called Cherry Bomb that cures that and also takes care of the smell factor.
Another point that is being missed is OCTANE has nothing to do with how much power a given fuel will produce.Octane is the resistance of the to flash burn and not a rating of the BTU the fuel generates. On top of that the Octane number you see at the pump are a "tinkered with" math averaging equation.

 

On a trip to AZ. last week in the modern I got to Tye Texas and filled with that areas gas. I then began to get 20 miles to the gallon. Our DFW gas will not allow us to do that.

 

That s right the alcohol added to reduce emissions is killing the gas mileage. Any way you go it is a win win situation for the Gas & Oil companies.

 

My race car takes a little over 1 gallon on Sunoco110 per p***. The same car on Alcohol takes almost 3.5 gallons per p***.

 

From the January 2007 issue of Popular Science:
Can you tell me what impact a lead additive will have on my unleaded engine?

Lead (in the form of tetraethyl lead) was an integral part of the blending of gasoline between the '20s and '70s. It boosted octane ratings and acted as a lubricant for valve seats. The addition of even a small quan***y of tetraethyl lead to your tank will contaminate your catalytic converter, and reduce or destroy its ability to minimize pollutants. Perhaps more important for you, the catalytic converter can actually plug up, choking your engine. The only solution is to replace the cat, which may cost many hundreds of dollars...

Also as a side note:

If your car/engine is equipped with any 02 sensors the TEL [tetraethyl lead] will also foul those parts and they will need to be replaced...

Watch the subs***ute that you purchase:

Some subs***utes are safe for cats and sensors but just because it is advertised as 104 octane boost [read the small print] it is actually only giving you a boost of 1.04 octane...

 

Your post started out asking about bad [modern] gas in your outboard...

There are no catalytic converter or 02 sensor on your outboard so using a "real" lead additive might help your situation...

Here in MN we still have some stations that sell non-oxagenated [no ethanol] gas. Your outboard would probably love that and a dose of lead additive. [not a lead subsitute]

Read the small print on lead additive and it is even allowed in the state of California for marine uses...

 

Ok, what (if anything) can we, do to protect our vehicles from damage by these govt. mandated fuels. I read the threads, and understand that there are additives that help, but is there anything out there that will help protect rubber, and other materials, from the harmful effects of alcohol. I would like to start using such products NOW, before the damage occurs. I too, am already having problems with my lawn tractor.
Also, if there are any products out there to help in preserving older engines, do you think the govt. will eventually ban them? Should we stock up now?

 

Nah, it'll never get to that. Cool thing about this country is there's a point at which the people here say "What the f&%k did you just say to me sukka-fool" and then it's open season on the *****s and they know it. The government might be able to bully the corporations around when their not being run by them but business is about business and will do whatever to go on making a buck. The people are about living their lives and being free at any cost. They're not going to get away with pushing the people around, there would have to be something better offered to get the people to go along with change. Don't worry about the politics.

 

good info, thanks guys.

 

Here is our general recommendations:

http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Ethanoluse.htm

Additionally, SOME vehicles will benefit from increasing idle fuel by 5 percent even on E-10.

Jon.

 

Chally, Thanks, I didn't know about the oxygen sensor too. While watching American Chopper one night (again, nothing else on) They were building a "green" bike to run on pure ethenol. I laughed my *** off when I saw old Paul's face as he realized that his fuel tank would have to be over 3 times the size for the thing or it'd hardly make it around the block!

 

CarbKing thanks for that info.It all points to bigger jets and more fuel consumptiom ... another big win for the Gas and Oil companies.
The only reason I ever put my race car on alcohol was not for more power but more consistancy. Alcohol is not as affected by the daily rise and fall of temperature and atmospheric conditions that we experience here in Texas

 

yeah,right....
when?

 

NY starting having 10 percent alcohol fuel about 5 years ago.I noticed no difference in the running of any of my several modern injected vehicles or the older carbureted engines.Even my old British cycles had no issues.I cut a lot of firewood,my pro model chainsaws run fine on 87 octane fuel.On the fuel mileage,about a one MPG less depending on driving conditions.
What I do know is modern fuel can gum up valve guides in old worn seldom used engines causing stuck valves and bent pushrods.Engines in good shape don't appear to suffer from this.
Never the less,I don't care for ethanol in the fuel.

 

I've noticed a drop in milage with the 15% stuff even in a fuel-injected vehicle.

I've come to the conclusion it's worth a dime more a gallon if I get 10% better fuel milage, it actually works out to be a little cheaper in the long run.