pitman arms and all steering parts are made from forged STEEL not cast iron. So welding them is no harder than welding any other steel parts. Make sure to bevel all joints so the weld is as deep as possible. I've been doing this for over 35 years and I've never had a problem with any part.
Was it a pitman arm, or "such an item"? Even an incident like this at RIR is more likely to have been caused by a tie rod failure, not a pitman arm. Perhaps remembering it like it was yesterday, but not having actually seen the failed component has clouded better judgement. I've worked quite a few years as corner flagman at a local dirt track, and have never seen any accident that can be attributed to failure of a welded pitman arm. Tie rods, sure. They normally will fail during a crash, where a pitman arm is more likely to bend, but not break. Even cars on the road, I've seen a couple cases of cars on the side of the road, front wheels spread apart from, yes, a tie rod failure due to lack of maintenance. Pitman arm failure, still waiting...... Go back to the post by GAB-KC. Even these manufactured parts are using the splined portion of the original pitman arm and......GASP......welding it to the new part. I'm not saying it is a bad component by any stretch, but find it funny that you seem to like welding forged steel one minute, and not the next. More and more, you show you're out of your element. Give it a rest.
Agreed, if it was a casting. However, I think you'll find that the Pittman arm being discussed here isn't a casting. It's forged, as are other parts in the steering system. Bob
I hope this gets closed soon. I'd just like to say something before it gets closed... The "just go buy your hot rod parts" is so alien to me and my perception of what traditional rodding is all about. It would be more appropriate on a streetrod board for 1 800 rodders. IMHO Did the guys in the 40s-50s just throw in the towel and say nobody makes what I need so I guess it just can't be done?? I don't think so. Those are my heros. Not the repro parts vendors. One of the great things about this board is that the guys take the time to teach others how it can be done safely. Safety is never overlooked on the HAMB but I get sooo tired of being preached to by the holier than thou crowd. Nobody denies your right to your opinion. You've made your point. Let it go. I will take my own advice. Forgive me for posting twice on the same post.
there have been plenty of posts on here of people making their own...from scratch, chris casney did a great one. That is what I would do.
All you fellas are missing the point who say "go buy the correct arm". If he is using a '56 box like he states, the arm is not something that is reproduced, or even found on anything except those 50's-60's trucks. And you can't just cut the splines out and weld them into a new arm. They have a weird big end. He'll have to start with the correct F-100 arm and modify to fit, or spend a lot of bucks on custom broaching splines in a new hunk of steel.
When all's said and done it's about peace of mind, I wouldn't enjoy driving my rod worrying about the weld failing all the time. Car manufacturers usually forge steering components because the grain flow is forced round the shape of the parts. Holes are hot punched during the forging process for the same reason. Cut and weld the arm and you destroy these properties. A good experement is to grind a thin taper on a piece of bar and then forge one the same, then bend it in a vice and see how much stronger the forged part is. I would try to get bits that fitted firstly then if not I'd forge up a blank out of some good quality steel and have a machine shop cut the splines and tapered hole. it shouldent cost too much. Guess I'm lucky as I was an engineer and a blacksmith by trade but if you can find a good industrial smith with a power hammer and it would't cost too much to rough out a blank. I recently had a tapered spline cut for about 45 bucks. Bert
do not hang them from the mirror, they can cause it to move and not be usable while driving, and remember no glued or reconditioned ones either safety first
Or start with a '57-'60 Pitman arm that has a tapered tie rod hole instead of a Ball & Socket type. Maybe he wont even NEED to cut & weld it. The '57-'60 hase the same mounting as the '56, I have that set up on my '55 F-100. But my Dropped steering arms are 1/2 & 1/2 Ford & Dodge welded together about 10 years ago
He didn't really say what the exact problem was...so you might be on to something. Not everyone realizes the later pitman arms changed for a tapered tierod. I'm wondering if the problem might be a more vertical column angle for a T requiring the pitman arm to be reset to straight down when the steering wheel is centered. Like someone already said, you can't easily index the F100 arm...
No, But you may be able to Heat & bend it to a Crecent shape to get the Tapered end more towards the center. You could also look into the Bigger series trucks, If i remember right the Big end is the same but they are longer so a Crecent shape bend wont shorten the arm to much. Why is it that my Feeble Mind can hold so much ******** information but the majority of people who supposedly BUILD cars dont have a clue on interchange ?
If you consider steering knuckles suspension parts, I have to disagree here about the casting vrs forging of suspension parts, but General Motors makes CAST IRON (and also aluminum) steering knuckles. I worked in one of their foundries for over 31 years and we made thousands of tons of them. Nodular iron for strength/suspension parts, gray iron for engine blocks.
I always find myself wondering about that tiny weld around the front of a wishbone...where the tapered tube connects to the forged axle yoke. Not a lot there to weld to...and its tubing to a heavy forging so the joint must have been tricky to set up. Those two little joints, on say a 48 wishbone, holds the entire weight of the front of that heavy sedan AND that weight is multiplied due to the positioning of the spring ahead of the axle. Now...pile on the brakes while hitting a speed bump or a pothole at 30 mph. Multiply that by the years of service and the miles covered. But we'll be fine as long as the Pitman arm holds up!!!!! LOL Theres about 500 other critical welded joints, all very much the same, spread over the whole car and Hot Rodders need to do most of them themselves! Lets start threads on ALL of them!!!! We'll do rear spring hangers first....then Batwings....then....
The issue with the steering arm is this- I had to change the angle of which the steering column mounts for it to fit in my 27 and to get the steering wheel in the right spot for the driver(me). by doing this, with the gear centered in the middle of travel my pitman arm is no longer at 90 degrees with my drag link so I'll have less turning radius and slightly slower steering toward the left since the arc of the pitman arm, as it moves, will be moving the end of the drag link up rather than pushing it forward sooner in its travel than it should, so, slower travel and less travel in one direction. I'm sure its not gonna make much difference but id rather have things work the way they should. I could mount the column so my pitman is at 90 the way it is but my roadster would look pretty stupid with a steering column sticking out of the top of the cowl Sorry there hackerbilt, i just noticed that you already pointed that out and your right except im actually tipping it back more since ill be sitting pretty much on the floor with no seat riser.
So true. Unfortunately, you still have yet to identify the failed component, and can't. Had you actually seen the item and been able to say it was the pitman arm, we would have heard the RIR story in your first post, not pages later.
x-ray and magnaflux can only tell you if there is any surface cracks or internal inclusions/flaws in the material and weld. It cant tell you if you used the wrong aloy of filler metal. could of just been too brittle of a weld for the application. Not saying it wasnt done right but just a possibility, things dont just break for no reason. For best results it should be tigged and stress relieved(thats a big factor in strength on a welded piece of cast or forge)
OK, there are two types of car guys. the first is the check book guys that buy everything from the likes of a Speedway book. Don't get me wrong Speedway is a very cool place with lots of quality parts. The second type of car guy works with his hands making the parts he can't afford or find. I'm the second type of guy. I have very limited funds to spend on hot rods so I'll build what I need. I built my steering arms AND pitman arm. I weld for a living and others lifes depend on my skills, so I'm sure what I build won't kill me or anyone else. If you don't think your welding skills are up to mine, go buy your parts.
7 pgs of reading and I did read it all......and I must have missed the actual answer. I'm certed & this can be done. Cut / bevel 45degrees both pieces. Multiple p*** TIG (around 3 or 4 p***es). Be sure to grind clean each individual p***. Then finish the groove up with multiple p***' of ARC. Be sure to grind clean each individual p***. Destructive testing???/ I've posted a Fillet Fracture for you guys before on here on 0.095 mild steel using a 110 MIG which EVERYONE was down on, but the test shows it p***' if you KNOW what your doing. Ok.....and I even included how it can be done. Carl Hagan
I didn't do this so don't jump all over me, but I thought you guys might like this one. I took it out of an antique car. Have a close look; it has been cut in half and then brazed together with a torch and br*** rod. Now THATS what I call having faith in your workmanship!!
I had maincaps in my 348 held together with br*** when we tore it down to rebuild......some of the old timers could make things work that just baffle us today.
If everything is right with the pitman arm except the register of the arm (not vertical with the steering box centered) why not just take a file to the four wide teeth in the arm and file them down and change the register to where you want it? As far as having a welded pitman arm, I ran one on the T bucket I built in the early 70's without problems. I did however V cut both pieces so that the taper of one piece fit into the V notch in the other piece and bevel the edges so that a the guy who did my welding could properly weld them. I think the keys here are 1. know your personal skill level. 2. Find out how to do (or have the task done) in the best manor possible. 3. If your skill level isn't up to the task take or send the piece to someone who has the proper skills. 4. Go buy a proper part that fits in the first place without modifications. Just like several others I tend to get tired of the posts by the silly Sallys who spread horror stories or nonsense and don't really contribute to the thread. Most of the modified or fabricated pieces I have seen brake on hotrods in the past 40 years have been pieces that were somewhat undersized for the task. Those usually were the spherical rod ends on a lot of T bucket style suspension or the radius rods themselves.I'm just as afraid as the next guy of the guys who run down to Lowes on Saturday morning and buy a 110 mig and go home and attempt to start building a car without any previous welding experience especially with the current crop of ratrods and ratrod magazines that may encourage people with little skill to attempt things way above their skill level. There is a reason why the first welding projects in high school welding cl*** usually are flower pot stands to be hauled home for the student's mom to stick flower pots on.
Mr48Chevy: The problem here is the F-100 Pitman Arms are a split clamp design. These only fit in one way,not like the earlier F-1s which are a tapered spline design. And my .02 ! If you have the proper tools/equipment and common sense/skills the arm can be safely bent or welded. 50 years ago I only had gas welding equip and was able to do a pitman arm safely. Nuff said here ,thread should be closed !!
if nothing else, this thread is great entertainment. On a related note, Im certified to weld construction steel and I really dont see any reason why it cant be done as long as its within your skill set. (continue to beat dead horse)
It seems you are saying that br*** isn't strong enough to hold the weld? Well, I can think of some uses of br*** that would seem to be contrary to that argument: screws, bolts, hinges, bullet casings, gears, zippers, and on and on and on... It can also be alloyed with tin and aluminum to increase its strength. Welding with br*** is still common... (be careful with blanket statements)
I just bought an Indian Blanket that I will be using as a transmission ****ter shield! (blanket statement)
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