Compression fittings, hard lines and 2 97’s

I’m having an issue pluming my dual carb setup using 2 new English 97’s. I want to stick with 40’s tech so want to go the hard line rout and use a compression T with the ford nuts in the carbs. I can’t get the compression fittings to clamp properly, in particular at the jet on the carb. The Ford nut actually bottoms out before it gets anywhere near tight and actually deforms the first thread on the nut. I have been using ¼ brake line from Napa because of the hubbub with copper. After no success I measured the line and the ferule and may have found the issue? The brake line, which is Zink plated steel, is .249 and the ferule is .252. Is this the problem???? Is it the grosse jet on the carb? Does the compression fitting require a softer material for a good seal?


The popular consensus is not to use copper however in this set up the hard lines are all on the intake between carbs and the fuel pump with no flexible joints between them. Is it really asking for trouble????


Any guidance is appreciated.

 

Is using double flare joints out of 40's tech?

 

Not necessarily but still doesn’t get around the compression fitting at the carb..

 

maybe Volvo's 90-10 copper-nickel brake line might have a slightly larger o.d. and the bronze color also

 

I use the 1/4 brake line,1/4" compression ferrel and a 1/4 inverted flare brake line nut. I have used this for years and no problems

 

I've done this in the past with no problems, using fittings from Sacramento vintage (unknown manufacturer) and I think NAPA brake lines...will have to measure what I have now. NAPA sells Weatherhead Ford fittings, I think I have another company source somewhere as well. I should be a quick-easy-old fashioned route to multiple carb lines.
Do you have access to an original carb inlet to see if the problem is in that area?
I have never measured the 1/4" ferrules and lines...but the numbers you give sound awfully loose, as the ball does not seem meant to distort all that much when clamping.
Copper line would probably be safe enough in short, stiff sections like this. Try it if it is closer to a real 1/4".
Two other kinds of stuff: I think NAPA may now sell the English type copper brake line... some sort of copper/nickle alloy that is definitely safe.
Nacewicz Ford bolts I think sells Ford fuel line of the steel with copper layer showing flavor...maybe that is proper size.
Flare joints are like what Ford used on its brakes, so certainly early tech! You can find old looking T fittings with more shape poking around in s**** from plumber/furnace sources.

 

On the fittings...the stuff I use is pre-terminated brake line with that sort of fitting at the T, like early Ford brakes, Ford balls and Ford fitting at carb and pump fittings. Just noticed you are using the other sort at Tee.

 

the compression fitting to carb is a different thread than the brake line...

 

Bruce I'm having the most trouble at the carb, if you look at the picture above you can see that the threads are all ******ed, no way to tighten it down enough to seal??? The carb nut came from Macs and is specific to the fuel line at the carb.

 

Well, that's junk, in closeup. Most available is likely Weatherhead 59X4...order balls, too, so you have some from a real company. I do not know if the ball ferrues will be packed with the fitting. I have also seen both the ordinary loose-ball kind and ones that came with the ball attached weakly to the fitting so that it broke loose as soon as it began to grip the tube.
The ones I got from Sacramento had good threads.

 

Found the alternate supplier:

http://www.plews.com/brochure.cfm?brochure=1861&location_id=2516

 

The ones I got from Sacramento had good threads.[/QUOTE]

This fitting had good threads till I tried to tighten it. It bottomed out in the fitting at the carb. hopefully I didn't mess up the jet on the carb...

 

Thanks! There is a difference at the end of the fitting. the weather head has more of a flatish or tapered spot. Macs are threaded to the end...

 

AHA! Probably Chinese part made to sketch on napkin...when you find good ones, buy a bucket full to tide us over the collapse of western civilization.

Search Weatherhead and "59X4" and you will eventually get both suppliers...you can still get the 59X4 and a female fitting to take it with small pipe threads on male end. I wish I could find a good new fitting with hose barb to use as other end to make up new pump to firewall lines.
Right now, I just drill out end from old hose and solder in a piece of tubing...would like better, as the lashup is pretty crude. Doing this, by the way, allows you to use modern FI gas hose. The new gas compounds are busily eating up the world supply of pre-manufactured hoses...

 

I checked out the weatherhead sight and found a distributor 5 mins from my work… I called up and they said they had 47 59x4’s in stock so I stopped in and picked up a few fittings. You can see a big difference between the two. That one from Macs is a joke. I hope there isn’t any damage to my carbs from the china fittings. The guy at the distributor also said this style of compression is not designed to work with steel lines and is best used on copper and other soft materials. Looks like the best bet is to use cunifer for the lines.

 

Nothing wrong with copper lines for your carbs, it's worked for decades with no problems. Chinese fittings are a different story.......

 

Chinese brake fittings also **** big time.
Stick with NAPA for fit and no leak.

 

Did some digging. All I have use the threadless section...yours are obviously the type with ball (Olive in England!) ferrule loosely attached...my new ones are not.
Official Weatherhead catalog name is "Ford nut", and Ford used them with steel Bundy type tube.
I found some very old W rubber lines, B and V8, and what I think is an original LZ pump to carb line, all used the threadless section.
T fitting ends of your setup can use either the ball type setup or a brake T utilizing the finished ends of your brake lines.
One of my finds in the digging was a vey cool 3-carb setup line from an old hotrod: Copper line, Ford fittings and balls at the T, ancient ad-in-Popular-Mechanics type regulator, and the T fitting was old with nice curves and vastly better styling than the modern ones...cool looking old piece. Probably Caddy, as it was for a forward fuel pump.
Remember when you could just buy these little hardware bits and screw them together without research, fear, and trouble?? Male and female fittings went together as manufactured...now they're all Gay??? WTH?

 

Not trying to highjack the thread, but this is definitely of a similar vein.

Last month my brother was tearing his hair out over a simple brake job on his P U. After trying, and taking three reman calipers back to the parts house, and buying new flex hoses, he still couldn't get the banjo fittings to seal. They'd look dry at first until you tried to bleed them, then seep fluid, sometimes literally dripping.

After taking time to drive to out to his house to have a look, I blew the lines/fittings apart. These particular calipers have a square ledge cast in next to where you screw the banjo fitting in, and one side of the banjo fitting is straight to bear against it, preventing the banjo from turning. Apparently the asian rebuild house (couldn't find any calipers still rebuilt in the U S, and the local parts houses were claiming new ones weren't available) didn't know or care that the cast in ledge was being damaged on their rebuilds (probably by throwing all the cores in a bin and letting them bash into one another), and wouldn't let the banjo fitting squarely seat to the caliper housing. It was only by screwing around trying to smooth the seating area of the banjo bolts and caliper did I figure out that the cast in ledge on the caliper housing needed to be machined flat with no irregularities, and absolutely square (perpendicular) to the seating surface for the banjo bolt. After about 45 minutes work filing the cast in ledge flat with a large single cut flat file, was I able to get the banjo bolt to seat squarely on the caliper and not be ****ed just enough it leaked. Finally building pressure in the lines while bleeding after working over the p***enger side so it didn't leak, caused the driver's side to start leaking, requiring it be worked over in the same way.

It doesn't seem to matter who you buy parts from anymore, or how much you spend, the odds of getting something that works right out of the box, and does not require remanning in the driveway as you install it, is slim and none.

 

We may eventually see a rebirth of the mechanic as craftsman/machinest as we are forced to diagnose and treat defective new parts in order to replace worn out old parts...and of course we will rediscover rebuilding fundamentally sound original parts in order to avoid the h***les of bad new parts.

 

Bruce:

Funny, I've been on the hunt for a small metal lathe for a while now for this very reason. If you can't beat them, make it yourself.

 

This thread is a great help. I'm about to start making hardlines for my 4x2 Stromberg setup and I was having a few problems tracking down fittings. I'm about to check out the Weatherhead site and see if there are any close to home dealers around for the 59X4 fittings.

 

Quickest route...59X4 for each carb, fuel pump if Ford
Brakeke Tees and 1/4" brake lines from NAPA
Place your tees, screw in a brake line, and bend to a carb...cut off, add a 59X4
Repeat til all are fed.

 

I did find a local place who sells Weatherhead and their online site said they have the 59X4 for $1.67 a piece, not bad at all. I guess I'll be busy today!

Thanks fellas!

 

Bruce, here ya go. McMaster Carr hasem

 

Thanks for the advise Bruce thats what I did all the parts were available at my local NAPA