OK. I have a 53 special that I've been going through hell with. I have it about to run and can't quite get to catch. I took the old old cap and wires off of the old engine and tagged them all. Then I put a new cap and wires on the new engine the same order. Now that I can't get to fire I am wondering what the f&^$ I'm doing wrong. I have a service manual and it has a completely different order than what the car had when I got it! Now the car ran pretty well before so I'd be inclined to think the order was right. So I know it turns counter-clockwise. I know to bring up #1 on the compression stroke. I know to point the rotor toward wherever I decide #1 is gonna be. But what order for the other 7? Any straight 8 guys know or willing to go have look under their hoods for me? I'd rather have it right off a runner than someone tell me their book specs. I am thinking some of the info out there maybe incorrect due to the 53 inline 8 / v8 confusion factor.
Well I'm really grabbing at straws here, but sometimes when the logical approach doesn't work you have to (temporarily, at least) consider the illogical approach. Are you sure that the new cap isn't some kind of "cross wired" oddball job? Check with a test lamp or ohmmeter to make sure that current from the terminals inside the cap flows to where you think it should to the terminals on the outside. Have you watched the rotor's movement while cranking the engine with the cap off to verify CW rotation? Are you bringing the engine up to TDC on #1 on the compression stroke or are you stopping when you feel the compression start to push your finger out of the spark plug hole? Are you locating TDC visually by just the timing mark? Perhaps a pulley or damper has slipped and the timing mark is no longer indexed properly, if that's where the timing mark is located. You might have to verify TDC by using a piston stop or maybe a dial indicator in the spark plug hole.
That order helped much. Same info I had, but I wanted to be sure my repop manual wasn't wrong. I have no clue what went wrong with the tagging of the old cap. I don't drink much and never in the shop if I'm working on customer stuff so I rule that out. I can't remember if I or my helper took those wires off but I do believe he did it and may have switched them up by accident. I do remember some confusion around that time where he thought it was a 6 cyl. so perhaps he was off while counting plugs and wires? If that's the worst he can do he's pretty ok. I went out and gave it a few cranks and it sputtered so I'm close for sure. I'll get it tomorrow for sure. I have the piston all the way up on compression and I can see the piston is at tdc. I'll spend a bit with it tomorrow in the daylight. Still need to get new points in it too so that might help get a hotter spark going. Thanks for the input guys. Much appreciated.
Bringing this back up to ask again if someone who owns a buick 8 to actually verify the order on their engine is 1-6-2-5-8-3-7-4 and that it's counter clock wise rotation. Not just the book but actually look at it. I got the car fired back up and it's backfiring form all over. Carb and pipes, and has no rhyme or reason. Sometimes it's better than other times. I suspect the timing chain may have ****ped out but I want to be sure of this before I go pulling the cover. This engine has never been proven to be good since I've had it here so it's a ****-shoot. It was already missing parts and needed way more work than we were promised. I have the manual and I know there are some procedures to verify the chain timing but I am still unsure of these new tune-up parts and the order. Just want to be sure before I get any deeper here.
OK. Found the same info in a real old manual so I feel better now. I'm pulling the timing cover to check the chain I guess.
Is it possible that you've not seen or heard this engine run before? There might be something really basic out of whack. Don't know how big of a job this is but before getting into the timing chain, have you turned the engine over with the valve cover removed? Are all the valves opening and closing as they should? Any broken or weak valve springs or bent pushrods? Do any of the rockers seem excessively loose when the valves are closed? Have you done a compression test? Could it be something really flukey like a broken camshaft, which a new timing chain isn't going to fix? Don't know if Buick straight 8s were notorious for this, but with a camshaft a block long it wouldn't be surprising. If the engine has set stored for a long time, maybe it's got some sticking valves or lifters which aren't allowing the some of the valves to close fully. Weak or broken springs would just make matters worse. You might try this to see if the timing chain is badly stretched. Remove the distributor cap and note the position of the rotor. With a wrench on the end of the crank, turn the engine counter clockwise until the rotor begins to move. It might be easier to see the movement of the rotor if you tape a pencil or piece of coathanger wire onto the top of the rotor extending a couple inches off to the side, if there's room. Now turn the engine clockwise, again by hand, while watching the rotor for movement. Ideally, within a couple degrees of crank rotation, the rotor should also move. If the chain is really worn or stretched you'll have to turn the crank a fair amount to take out the slack before the cam starts moving which in turn should start turning the distributor shaft and rotor. A little slack is to be expected on a used engine but if it's excessive it will retard the cam timing. It wouldn't necessarily keep it from starting and idling OK but the engine might be sluggish or hard to start hot. If it was me, I'd start by eyeballing the valve train and if that looked OK do a compression check to make sure you're not fighting a "weak ****" in a couple cylinders.
That's exactly the problem. The engine was purchased by the car's owner from Ebay. Seller swore to the guy that it ran and had good compression and he checked it all out before he pulled it. He claimed he took it out of another car to replace his engine with it and never did the job. Then sold his car...blah...blah.... I really feel bad for the guy cause he's got this boat anchor now and I can't get it right. It's been a long term job with the car already getting the motor swapped and cleaned and painted and cleaning everything up. Installed a 1941 2x2 intake and custom dual exhaust. I rewired the car and replaced all the fuel lines. The fuel tank and sender needed work...The list goes on and on. Everytime I fix one thing there are 2 things that I find that I need to fix. Last week the freeze out plugs let go while I was trying to get it tuned in. That set it back a bit. The week before that I found it was missing 2 lifters and pushrods! I think that may be an indication of what's up with the popping now that I put them in. I also pulled all the rest of the lifters, cleaned them out and got them working right. I cleared the push rods too. Reset the valves by the book. Today I did the check on the chain. It can be done without pulling the cover and it comes in right on the nose. I'll do a compression test tomorrow when I have a helper here. I think I'm gonna find either a valve hanging up or burned. Either way I think the head needs to come off for service unless it frees up and starts working. Oil pressure is ok according to the gauge, which appears to be working. The cam is turning ok and all the valves open and close but that isn't gonna tell me if a spring is too weak either. The popping sound like what a wiped out cam lobe sound like. It has a shake at idle too like a misfire. Compression test will help maybe. I have no confidence in this engine. I hate the car and the owner hates me cause it's costing him money. I appreciate the input from all you guys. In 20 years I've never given up on a job without getting it fixed but this thing may be the first.
I gotta admire your determination. Wish you were working on this thing across the alley from me. Missing two lifters and pushrods? Well that's got to get your attention! Compression test should tell you a lot, one way or the other. Probably wouldn't hurt to check cranking vacuum too. Now about that 2 x 2 intake setup. Have you got a stock single carb and intake setup you could swap back on? Maybe you're fighting some kind of synchronization issues with the dual carbs. Might be best to keep things simple while trying to sort out this unknown quan***y of an engine.
If I were across the alley you could get a chuckle out of me every time I was working on it. Nope intake is gone. I also wish it were here. I thought about the carbs but I think if it was rich/lean or sync it would be a different issue. Maybe one pop on accel or something or a hunting idle or something. The pops just sound like cam speed to me. I really hope it is just a sticky valve and it frees up and starts smoothing out. It seems to be better today than it was on saturday so maybe it'll loosen up. Fingers crossed. Thanks...Mike.
Maybe thats why those lifters and pushrods were gone. Could you put a dial indicator on the retainer and check to see how much those valves are opening compaired to the rest? If you have the stock Buick two carb setup it only idels on one. The other with the air valve under it, only has the high speed circut, like a secondary on a va*** secondary four barrel. Is is opening and delivering fuel?
Compression is all over the place. from 65 to 120 lbs. and every stop in between. I don't own any leak-down gauges so I'm gonna make an educated guess that it's a valve issue. Wether they are are sticking or burned I can't say. Or a flat cam? I'm gonna run it for a while and see if some heat and oil helps. Any of you guys have any tricks to free them up? I know ATF works on sticky lifters but will a quart do anything for the valves? Marvel Mystery Oil? Never had a sticky valve before. When I do old stuff I tend to either hear it run before I pull it or do a complete rebuild. This is the first and last time I do this, that's for sure. I'd hate to tell the owner that the head has to come off but it is looking that way. What a mess.
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