'Cash for clunkers' - Engines to be chemically destroyed

'Cash for clunkers' - Engines to be chemically
destroyed using Sodium Silicate to prevent any
possible salvage or re-use

'This is truly and criminally sick!

[" "Dealers will have to disable the clunkers' engines.
Dealers will have to remove "the engine oil from
the crankcase, replacing it with a 40 percent solution
of sodium silicate (a substance used in similar
concentrations in many common vehicle applications,
including patching mufflers and radiators), and (run)
the engine for a short period of time at low speeds
(rendering) the engine inoperable," NHTSA said". ]
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Detroit News
<!-- m -->http://www.detnews.com<!-- m -->
July 25, 2009

<!-- m -->http://www.detnews.com/article/20090725 ... am-expands<!-- m -->

Cash for clunkers' program
expands

Rebates start Monday; new rules target
fraud, include more vehicles


David Shepardson / Detroit News Washington Bureau

Washington -- The long-awaited cash for clunkers program,
which starts Monday, will include more vehicles than previously
expected, thanks to changes unveiled in the final rules that
were officially released Friday.

In the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration's final
regulation, some new provisions were included to broaden
the number of eligible clunkers and new cars, and dealers
were told they will be responsible for disabling the engines
of clunkers before they get sent to the junkyard.

NHTSA's Web site said consumers can start getting rebates
Monday. NHTSA spokesman Rae Tyson said more than 1,700
dealers were approved to take part the first day, while
another 2,100 were pending approval or in the draft stage.

Another 148 applicants had been rejected.

Congress said new eligible vehicles must have a
manufacturer's suggested retail price of no more than
$45,000, but that applies only to the base price
-- meaning customers could pick out a pricier car
loaded with options and still use the rebate.

Consumer purchases after July 1 can be eligible for
the program, which offers a rebate of up to $4,500,
if they meet all the requirements.

Under the rules set by Congress, most clunkers must
average no more than 18 miles per gallon in combined
highway/city driving.

In the 2008 model year, the Environmental Protection
Agency revised its mpg calculations, dropping the
average mileage by about 10 percent.

"Older vehicles can qualify if the vehicles meet the 18
mpg or less under the newer test procedures.
Eligibility is determined by the revised ratings rather
than the original EPA sticker on the vehicle," NHTSA's
regulation says.

Another new detail in the program: Dealers will have
to disable the clunkers' engines.

Dealers will have to remove "the engine oil from the
crankcase, replacing it with a 40 percent solution of
sodium silicate (a substance used in similar concentrations
in many common vehicle applications, including patching
mufflers and radiators), and (run) the engine for a short
period of time at low speeds (rendering) the engine
inoperable," NHTSA said. In a July 21 letter, the National
Automobile Dealers ***ociation argued that Congress did
not ***ign the task of making the engine inoperable to
the dealers, and that if required to do so, the dealers
should be paid.

"We believe that having the engine permanently
disabled at the dealer greatly reduces the risk of fraud,"
said NHTSA, adding that disabling the engines will cost
dealers no more than $30.

NHTSA will spend $33 million running the new program
and hire about 230 people. It also will launch a $10
million advertising campaign to promote it.

NHTSA said officials from Texas, California and Germany,
which all have programs to pay consumers to s**** older
vehicles, cautioned the agency "to be vigilant to guard
against fraud.
============================================================

<dl cl***="postprofile" id="profile11993"><dt>
</dt></dl>

 

I have a friend who works at a Volvo dealership in San Jose. He said they had a nice mid 90's Camaro Z28 come in. It was a 5.7L I think with a 5 spd and there was nothing mechanically wrong with it. The owner traded it in on a car that got better mileage and did the cash for clunkers deal. They have to destroy the car and cant take any parts off it. He said they have a slime that they pour in and run the motor at likw 2500 or 2800 RPM for a few minutes and it just eats everything.

This is not good....lotta good PARTS CARS are gonna eat it now. After they blow it up it goes to a wrecking yard where it gets shreded....motor, trans, body, wheels,...everyything.

 

what is the world coming to.....

 

This is insane!! What can we do about it? WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS!!!

 

This is great news, daily drivers that average less than 18mpg are just wasting precious oil. Most "cl***ic cars" aren't being driven daily so they shouldn't be affected too much.

 

One stupid idea followed by another so far...

 

Thank everyone who voted for Obama. Thats OUR tax money getting recycled and sent to china. Off my soap box now.

 

Too late. It's policy. The time for getting upset and making our voices heard was a while ago.

To its credit, SEMA did a great job getting provisions in that would protect vintage and cl***ic cars. The concern is that information won't trickle down to the dealers.

-Brad

 

****in retard people need parts

 

I think what is meant by this beign a bad deal is, lets say I want to put a late model engine (EFI) into my older vehicle. By destroying these "donor" vehicles, I can't get one of these late model engines cheaply at the junk yard/auto recycler.

Bad part is, if I update an older vehicle with a newer EFI, not only does this older vehicle save resources because it will most likely get better mileage due to the EFI, it will also polute less because of it. To me, that's a win/win deal. Under this program, it's not going to happen.

 

Are you one of the people ACORN and the Administration have on their payroll to go into websites and promote this administration's policies, or are you this ****ing stupid on your own?

You have no city listed in your profile, almost no posts, and you're saying one of the most reviled programs in the automotive hobby is "great news" and are using phrases like "just wasting precious oil." So you don't think our cl***ics should be affected "too much?" Do you have a vintage car? If you did, you'd realize why this is a problem for us.

I think you're an employee of some Pro-Obama/Pro Green group getting paid to post this **** on hobby and enthusiast sites.

-Brad

 

you guys wanted change,now your getting it. even sema couldn't keep this from happening.

-danny

 

How is that "Hope and Change" working out for you?

Another re-Hash of the Klunker Laws from Kalifornia........

 

I don't know whether to be pissed because this is happening, or because I have too much integrity to sign up for one

 

Could we keep this thread open by not making it a political debate, Obviously the program has a political motivations but now that it exists we can't do much about it. Just "damage control" keep it from affect our hobby as much as possible.

 

Is this a Planted post? Get back in your Prius and tell "BroBama" his Hope and Change is more like "Ropes and Chains" Not a good way to run the greatest nation on the planet.

 

Just my opinion but this program has a lot more to do with bolstering the auto dealers than enviromental issues. It's just an easier sell if you make it a "green" program. Folks are fed up with bailing out inept corporations.

There will still be a lot wrecked cars go to salvage yards, and there is a window for this allowance so it's not a forever deal as i understand it.

 

How the heck does this bolster an auto dealer?? If we don't get the money we are out THOUSANDS of dollars, let me know how that would work for YOU in this economy, or anytime in your business. As far as the vehicles - you CAN take off parts, just has to have the power train intact, though 'killed' with the water gl***. any body and or interior parts can be removed by the recycler/dismantler/shredder. It's the powertrains they want dead. This whole deal is a nightmare for dealers, as we are fully hanging for the 3500 oir 4500 dollars and the gov't has more hoops for us to jump through than a poodle in a circus. I don't know a dealer yet who has gotten a payment authorized yet. To make a couple hundred on a new car, not get a sellable trade and be on the hook for thousands? Screw 'em. Thanks a lot B.O.

 

Would the fraud be, not destroying the motors so that they had a resale?
Can you get a New low gas mileage vehicle with the "cash for clunkers"?
I hate seeing good/usable things go to waste.

I understand the idea of better fuel efficiency. My opinion is, there are too many NEW low gas mileage cars and trucks. The problem didn't start with Obama. The auto makers haven't done there part to make better vehicles, fuel consumption wise. They are safer, I'll give them that.
The white house could have stepped in sooner to support better fuel efficiency, not give incentives for people to buy low fuel mileage cars and trucks.
This seems like all is doing is "stimulating" the economy with a shallow plan that will in the long run help the auto manufacturers/ gov't look better then they are.

There will be more lost then gained.
-Gary

 

Scotto

The deal is that the car can't be more than 20 years old or at least that's what they are saying around here. So its not like they are going to destroy one of our old hoopties in the program.

The way I see it its less late model cars that no one has cared to keep up to run me over.

 

Creates traffic, which leads to sales (regardless if they use the program or not). And yes like most government programs it costs more than it's worth.

 

look at the bright side, this is going to make a 86 Nissan Sentra a rare collector car!!! start whoarding now it a gold rush.

 

couple of comments from a used car dealer...me...

some of the "clunkers" that will get traded are pretty good vehicles that would be great on my lot and would serve those folks that need a family vehicle for under $5000. Think Suburbans, vans, crew cab trucks, older Caddys and Lincolns, etc. Some of those getting traded are very low mileage...used by older folks, always garage kept, well-maintained. Those are the kind of trade-ins that work good for both the dealer and the end user.

now who is going to be in possession of that type of vehicle, would have owned it AND insured it for more than twelve months AND have the financial means to step up and purchase a brand new vehicle? Not the average working fella.

Who would have LOVED to get there hands on those high quality, low mileage "gas guzzlers"? Perhaps the average working fella? Perhaps the young family with too many kids?

IMHO, this program is not going to serve the portion of the population that voted for the current administration. I believe they missed their intended mark on this one.

 

The first thing I thought of when I heard about this program was how beneficial it will be for GM (as well as other manufacturers) and their new business partner, Uncle Sam. By removing old clunkers, it will be harder and harder to find a decent used car out there in the free market. Instead of buying a nice, $4000 used car on Craigslist (because they'll be impossible to find) you and I will have to go to a dealership to buy a new or used car, both of which will benefit the dealership. This is another band aid on a severed head by first impressions, but when one looks deeper, it's not just a publicity stunt to look "green" for the tree huggers. It's purely a profit thing for the recently bailed out auto manufacturers. All of whom are expected to pay back the government for those bail outs. By keeping the big three running, the government, in essence, is protecting it's investments. Personally, I've thought about buying up some old, $300 wonder cars, like aging Honda Civics or ****py old Dodge Colts and getting myself a new car on the cheap. The program has already given us the shaft. The best we can do at this point is try to bend it to our advantage. A cheaper new car price means the potential for more hot rod parts later, as our car payments will be lower. Just my take on the mess.

 

Yeah, Basically if you need to get a daily driver for your wife and want a later model car from an independent used car dealer or individual you could be out of luck. If this program takes off you'll be stuck taking out a loan on a new car or "certified" used.

 

Some of you are really blaming Obama for this?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cash_for_clunkers

 

Local dealer is using a photo of a 55 chev 2 dr post!!!

****ing idiots!

 

i have an idea this will spur a hole new kind of crime, just think of how many ways there are to get around this law, swaping numbers, switching engines, geez, you know if you worked at a dealer and the perfect engine came in one of these cars you would be allowed to have it. i also think it's a dumb law and will do nothing to help anyone.

 

Its NEVER too late to vote to CHANGE THE LAW

We, the people, are still in charge---if we make the effort!