I've never built a car before, but I've read lots of hot rod magazines and I've read a lot of HAMB. That makes me an expert, so I thought I'd go ahead with a project. I just aquired a model T ch***is, complete with front and rear suspension and rims. I want to build a T bucket. What can I use of Henry's iron? The reason I ask is, I hardly ever see T buckets at the car shows using original model T front axles. Only the springs seem to be used. I see lots of '40 front axles. Is there some reason not to use the Model T axle and stearing? How about the rims? I know the old Model T's didn't go much over 45mph. Would the rims be safe at modern freeway speeds? What about at the drag strip? Thanks for any advice.
As far as steering, keep in mind the weight of the car the original steering box was designed for. If you are sticking a heavy V8 engine in it, you might want to go with a steering box made for a heavier car. Also, front brakes? Do you want them if you are moving at highway speeds, or on the drag strip? Also, wooden or wire wheels?
All your concerns are correct. That said, I have seen some really kool T's using old suspention and frames. Search "Sinister" And dare to be different. Have fun and don't listen to all the critics.
Well, if you do go with a T frame, I'd recommend boxing it. I've seen some real twisting on T frames that weren't boxed.
Totally depends on which direction you're going by saying "T Bucket". If you plan on staying pretty tradition to the "T" itself, then use the frame and all of Henry's stuff. This was taken at 65mph on the way to the pileup last year. All original Henry drivetrain, frame, etc... Here's the link to Bubba's build on it.
I'd say only if you were building something similar to the T that LindRoss showed above. If you were building what we would call a "normal" V8 powered T bucket with attending horsepower to go with it I'd just build or buy a tube frame for the bucket and then maybe save the T ch***is back for a Speedster Or Gow job. <input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><!--Session data--><input onclick="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" type="hidden">
The T ch***is has to have a lot of boxing to be safe - as in completely. The later axles have some drop and more iron (safer), so they sit a little lower and look better. You can get the same look by raising the front spring perch. The wheels should be ok as long as they have been trued up (wobble) and the steering box is probably rebuildable to get rid of the slack. Do a THOROUGH inspection of the hubs and bearings, replace anything that is not up to snuff, use a good synthetic grease when you pack them. The original wheel and tire sizes probably won't be something you want to go very fast with. Have fun - be safe.
Re. Hamber "Harms way"'s posts on the Frank Mack T last fall, a T open car frame is heavier gauge steel than a closed car. Doubting Thomas that I am I went down to "The Ranch" and measured some. Of course He was right. Frank reinforced a open car frame and it was always flathead powered and it worked for a LONG time. Unless you going for big power and wide sticky tires I wouldn't worry about it.
Here's a T frame modified, boxed fairly heavily, with maybe a 110 hp iron duke. Handles pretty good, and goes OK, cause it's so light. Wouldn't want a bigger motor with this frame though. Ignore the sidecar,was just moving things around that day.
It has wire wheels. They are not quite perfectly true. How do I true them? Should I take them somewhere? It's also missing the steering box so I get to put my choice on it. Any advice there? Corvair boxes are getting a little hard to find in good shape. I do plan on putting a mild V8 on it. I have a heavy Ford 400 and a C6 ****** I was thinking of using. I'm sure there are better choices. I may put a Y-block in it if I can get the one I'm eyeing cheep enough. Ok, now I'm going to get a little weird... I tossed around the idea of tossing the frame rails and using new steel to extend the front end out about 2 feet longer than stock so that it looks like a late '50's or early '60's Front engine dragster. I could hide the radiator by laying it flat inside a sheetmetal cone extending from the front of the engine down to the front axle. I hope that made sense. I'll try to post pictures later tonight. Any way, how do you think the front axle would survive under a big 'ol heavy V8 if it were extended a couple more feet in front of it? I doubt I'll reach 300 horse power. Thanks for all the thoughtful advice.
Do not use a stock T front axle with anything more than a banger. Not easy to get any kind of brakes to fit on it a**** other things ,bad idea.
I think that that could be a great looking car, only maybe the extension needs to be like four feet so that you can taper the front sheet metal nicely. You will definitely need other than that T frame. Rather than cut it up to save the little you can work with, sell it to a restorer and just build or adapt something else. You can add a bridge beam of round tubing above or below your rectangular side rails - in parallel - attached by short vertical pieces and some diagonals. Will be amazingly strong, like a bridge truss, and still light.
Here's what I had in mind. Imagine TV Tommy Ivo's nose cone, wild pipes, and roll bar with a Model T roadster body (no windshield)... You're right. Four feet (more or less) would look better. I had planned on extending the front of the stock ch***is a couple of feet in front and then moving the engine and seat to the back of the frame in order to accomplish the slope on the tapered nose that you were talking about. Sorry, I left that out of the explanation above. So, back to the original questions. Would a stock model T front end hold up under this rig since it's so far in front of the weight? Is there any way to put brakes on one? I don't think I can get it on the street without brakes. Would the stock model T wire wheels hold up? I've gotten opinions on both sides - for and against. Any more? Here's a picture of what I think you were talking about with the bridge beam ch***is. It also gives an idea of what a model T roadster body may look like on a FED (if you cut the roof off in your mind's eye)...
I would never tell anyone to use a stock frame for anything but stock!! They ****, there a "bedspring" & a ****ty bedspring at that. The car in post #10 looks like its had everything changed, i can't see any orginal T except for maybe the rear cross memeber. Do yourself a favor & get a un***embled frame from Speedway & weld it yourself.Mine has a 1/8" thick Total frame & you won't believe how much it flexes! In my opinion i would get the frame & the fenders & and make one of those "mary on the halfshell" displays for your front yard. Theres been other posts on this subject & everyone says the same thing, ditch it!!
Here's an ugly thought that I will probably hear about.I don't know your building skills but you might want to try a later model car for your first build or if you have to have a roadster look into buying an aftermarket ch***is there are several good manu that sell quality products at realistic prices ,and they have the bugs worked out all ready.There is nothing more aggravating to dumping heart sole and $$$$ into something and then have to through it away .Do something that you can get some quick gratification out of have some fun learn some things and move up the line .This is espiecially true if you are married or attatched wifes and girl freinds can be big ***ets or major downers in the car building game . This advise has been free . It is at least worth what you paid for it .
The first picture above is basically how I was picturing it, axcept with a longer front end, more like Tony Nancy's 22 Jr. dragster (perhaps one of the prettiest ever! IMHO). In fact I have always thought about building a rod with a 22 Jr nose, blown 392 with Enderle injection, and a T Touring body. In a dark silver. I will never build it but I have dreamed about that car (yes, it would be a mie long) since I was a kid. As to your question about the Model T axle and wheels, that might not be such a good idea. If you are planning on powering this thing with, say a banger or an old flat six, then maybe you could get away with it. But no way with anything that is seriously capable of making power. The reason is that the stock T axles are somewhat puny and extremely primitive. The king pins, wheel bearings, steering connections and so on are not up to the demands of steering and suspending a car. If this is a low powered car, maybe. If this is a show car only, sure why not. But if you are going to drive it on the street, no way. That kind of answers the questions about the stock T wheels. They are maybe a click or two up from the axle, or maybe below. But not a good choice for anything, really, except a restored Model T or a farm wagon. You never see Model T wheels on rods (except of course for period speedsters and the like; there is a reason. Suggest you scrounge for some other unique axle, as it sounds like you do not want to go with a cookie cutter front end. A score would be the front axle/torsion bars/spindle mount wheels from a period dragster. Maybe there are other alternatives as well, like the axle from an early Ford van. I am not the best to suggest the alternatives that might exist, but others on this forum are pretty good at that. So, in summary, great idea on the design of what you have in mind, but maybe not as much for the stock T axle and wheels.
Yes, that is exactly what I was talking about in terms of the bridge beam truss or ch***is. You could significantly increase the goodness of that T frame if you did this. You would probably still need to box some or all of it, and add crossmembers.
I still have my high school T bucket I built 50 years ago. I used 2 T frames and welded them together to make a box. a lot of work welding, then grinding, everything from the firewall foreward. no money but a lot of time back then. 2 X 3 x .188 wall tubing is a lot faster and safer... If you go to the tbucketeers web site youngster has a set of plans you can download free. The stock T axle and kingpins are way too small for anything other than a stock block T.
The T steering box is a planetary setup in the little cup housing just below the steering wheel on your original column. If you didn't know that and hooked up the steering column shaft to a steering box/rack and pinion you would be really surprised when the car steered backwards, turn the wheel right and the car goes left and vice versa. Books, books, books, get 'em, read 'em, absorb 'em.
I'd like to see all of these rods pictured in bare frame or rolling ch***is pictures so you could see what was done to the stock T frames they used.
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