Wierdest starter I've ever seen... can someone explain this?

The Edsel is back together, but now it's having trouble turning over. I pulled the starter this evening once I got home from work, and was a little... surprised by the thing I pulled out of the car. I'm pretty fascinated by these bizarre old bits of technology, just wondering if someone could explain the operating principle here.

I don't see a solenoid, is it internal? Does centrifugal force engage the starter gear when the motor gets power? Is this design common on cars from this era?

 

The starter solenoid should be on the passenger inner fender.

 

The starter solenoid is a remote which is mounted on the firewall or inner wheel well. HRP

 

Ok, so the relay is the solenoid. That makes sense.

 

You haven't messed with many old fords, have ya? Yes, the centrifugal force of the spinning flywheel once the engine has started spins the starter drive gear back out of engagement. If you're careful, you can do this manually by holding the starter drive against a spinning wire wheel on a bench grinder.

 

Here is a photo of the Ford starter solenoids. HRP

 

Can you say BENDIX?

 

That's a negatory. This car is a good 15 years older than my previous "old" cars. Honestly, it's the stuff like this that keeps me coming back. I love seeing how the technology evolved over time. I think I get it now. The giant nose piece is a bit weird, but I think I can remember that solenoid is called starter relay in Edsel speak. At least, that's what my wiring diagram calls it.

 

Runnin a Y-Block?

 

I've still got the original 361 FE motor in there. I'm itching to get it fired up so I can really see how good of shape it's in. On the maiden voyage bringing it home, it ran pretty smooth. No smoke at all, so it's solid. Rear seal leaks, but I can live with that for now. That's not exactly a "mission critical" repair.

I've put a grand total of 4 miles on it. Basically just a white knuckle ride bringing it home. Bad brakes, and liquid gasket stopping up the leak from the accelerator pump. Classy.

 

"Bendix"; as posted above, is the proper term for the doohickey that get's the job done at the flywheel end. Solenoid and relay have become pretty much interchangeable for the fender mounted relay unit... i've seen lots of that type starter messing with early '60's bigblock Fords.. heavy buggers! no too much fun to get that long-ass drive into the bell from underneath either.... the best thing about them is they are damn near indestructible. NEVER had to beat on one to make it work like SOME latemodel Fords i've ran.....

 

I've had exactly zero time to work on the car, but in the morning I'll experience the "joy" of reinstalling this bugger. I guess the starter is pretty durable, at least it should be since it feels like it's made out of plutonium. I'm sure these things are common enough for hambers, but I'm still new enough at this game that I get a kick out of these oddball parts. I felt the same way the first time I took apart Bosch mechanical fuel injection. The starter isn't quite as funny as a fuel distributor, but it's close.

I know the rubber thing you're talking about. I saw it when I priced starter parts, but this car doesn't have one. Maybe that's a Y-block thing that was phased out on the FE. The starter fits flush on the Edsel (at least this one). The relay isn't bakelight either. It's a black metal can, which may be an aftermarket replacement, but the parts car has the exact same piece. Hopefully one of them turns out to be good.

Wish me luck guys, if all goes well the Edsel will officially be a runner in the morning

 

So do you know the trick of releasing the Bendix with a paper match when rebuilding one?

 

I have never heard the paper match trick, but I'm pretty curious as to where the match comes in...

You guys were right, that thing is a sonofabitch to reinstall. It took more than a few attempts to figure out how to maneuver it into place. Nothing like jimmying with an 80lb hulk of a starter while rust from the exhaust and crud from everywhere else rains down on you. It spun perfectly fine once I put it in, which is weird. I didn't do anything but take it out and put it back in. Either it just needed some jostling around to get it working, or the Edsel was demanding a blood tribute (which it recieved) before letting me go any farther.

I need to rig up my temporary gas tank again when I get back from work, but hopefully my next thread will be a self-congratulatory one when it fires up *fingers crossed*.

 

There's usually another in the glove box too

 

That starter may single-handedly be the reason I no longer run one of these motors. What a fucking nightmare. The drive is too long to just insert into the bell from underneath, but only by a smidge. So you think you're about to get it in, with your arm going numb from holding the 25 lb starter up against the crossmember, then the thing falls back out as if to tell you to go fuck yourself again and again. Then after about an hour of wrestling, loosening the engine mounts and exhaust, you finally get the starter into position. 2 bolts go in easily, and you think you're home free, but then you get that last bolt that is strategically placed sandwhiched between the block and starter motor, so only toddlers can get a good grip on the head of the bolt. You feel around and get a wrench on it, but you can only turn it 1/8 of a turn. 20 minutes later, the bolt is finally in. Worn, and with your spirit broken, you go to the bar and drink away your sorrows.

I don't miss my Y-Block at all.

 

I wonder how many times this will be repeated?

 

Good god! Sounds like it's a much worse job on a '57. It's very cozy with the crossmember when it's going in, but I never even considered having to loosen the motor mounts

And no, the starter will most definitely NOT be coming out anytime soon. I watched it get tested, and if I have further issues, it's upstream of the starter itself.

 

a piece od a lead from a pencil will also work to reset the starter drive just slip in the groove and roll it back into place , damn im showing my age now

 

It's always fun to watch the kids try to work on this stuff for the first time. The tricks that we give out so freely, usually cost us some skin and several drops of blood sacrifice to the Goddess of Speed.

 

Wierdest starter? Am I that old? That's waht a starter should look like.

 

i have a 56 with a 292 that i installed one of the newer starters intended for a FE engine (3 bolt snout ) on and it works great even though the drive engages from the front instead of the rear i used to drive that car every day and never had an issue with the starter

 

yunguns dont understand, thats what a starter sposed to look like, its the new stuff thats weird LOL

 

That's what I'm talking about! Plus I love the sound of the old stuff, they make a gear reduced "High-Torque" starter for the Y but I would never buy one.