Looking at buying a 38 mordor thats complete and drivable except the flatty was pulled. I was wondering if thers a kit or conversion parts available to install a 289? Could really use some direction here... thanks in advance.
Check out Chassis Engineering. I used there kit to install a small block ford in my 37 Ford and it worked well. Firewall has to modified slightly but it's a nice fit.
A small block ford is 1 1/2 inches longer than a small block Chevy. You WILL have to cut the firewall! Remember this.... "A small block chevy sits where a flathead was" Larry
I got off my dumb ass and went to speedway looking. .. Is there any steering issues using a SBC or can hugger headers clear the steering?
I had a 289 in my 40 Ford coupe for over 10 years using the C4 transmission. Frank Otto did a series of doing the same in Rod Action Mag. He claimed you had to cut the firewall but all I had to do was bubble the firewall area a little around the passenger valve cover. Only because the heads are staggered on a SBF. I used the Hurst front motor mounts that mounted to the factory pads. To run an axle car you will have to convert the oil pan over to the rear sump system. Mine came from a Ford Van. You will need the pan, oil pump pickup and rod cap bolt for the change over. I used the 289 cast iron headers on the driver’s side and I believe the passenger was from a 351 Ford. It was an easy set up and loved the dependable 289 for years.
I put a model A radiator in my 40 and did not have to touch the fire wall and the hood fits. I'm ruining a 93 h.o. with a 185 thermostat electric fan and have had no over heating problems. The model A radiator gave me three more inches to work with.
I have a 351 in my much modified 39. I put it in the same spot I pulled a BBC out of. IMO, when aftermarket heads are added into the mix, I think a SBF is a BETTER engine than a SBC, and hands down is a more attractive engine than a SBC. It is EASY to put a SBF in a 39, the firewall will open up with the use of a BFH...
i have a 40 with a sbf.. I wish it had a chevy.. as the firewall could have been unmolested.. lots of parts available to make this swap work.. but you'll still need to do something about your firewall;-(
Just depends on the intelligence of the installer. I have done both without "Molesting the firewall. As a rule you weld in a pocket with the SBC for distributor cap ease of removal and fords are just as simple. First of the year installed a BBF in my 33--Didn't touch the firewall but if it would have been necessary that's all part of hotrodding.
Or you can use the water pump kit from Snow White Ltd. It shortens the front of the engine 2" by which might give you enough room to not have to notch the firewall. Just a thought. http://www.snowwhiteltd.com/products.htm
With the oil pan mounted just behind the spring mount bolts, the firewall had to be dented in about 1 inch on the passenger side. The only way to prevent this was to mount the motor high over the front crossmember and closer to the radiator. There would have been more lower firewall work this way as well as floorboards. I ran a stock fan as well. It was a hot rod so the firewall thing wasn't a problem. The C4 was just were it needed to be to exit the crossmember at the trany mount and pan clearances for the non split wishbone. I always go the easy way.
I'd like to stick wit hthe stock tranny/clutch and just update the motor. Theres always more to it than... "just add a motor", but i would like to keep this as basic as possible, there's plenty of other custom work to do to it.
So if i go SBC, are there issues I'll run into? As far as adapters, i've found one available from speedway, are there others?
If you run an adaptor and a small Mallory dist., you won't have to touch the firewall when you run A sbc. Chassis eng. Makes bolt in mounts, which makes it a breeze. - Danny
driver side exhaust will be tight with a sbc and a stock / vega or similar steering box. otherwise chevy into a ford is alot easier..
Basics: Adapters available for SBC. Last issue or so of Hot Rod Deluxe had a very good article on modern-sourced clutch parts needed to replace the tradirional '49 Merc pressure plate (hard to get) or redrilling Chevy wheel for Long clutch. Up front, Hurst Chevy mount (watch HAMB classifieds for about two days...) should drop right on to the '38 mounts. Block off (non-destructively, please, for when flatheads reinherit the earth) one upper and one lower radiator hose... I would use short 283 type pump and accessories to keep engine nose short, as the '38 radiator leans back into engine accessory space. The Chevy is a natural replacement for the flathead...most other V8's have less convenient dimensions.
Thaks everyone, I sure do appreciate it. Using a Hurst style motor mount... does it clear the mechanical fuel pump and the chev oil pan, does it clear the crossmember and wishbones without modifications?
I don't get this obsession with the SBC. The small block Ford is narrower by inches, just as short or shorter with the right front dress/ water pump setup, rear sump oil pans are as common as dirt, and have been since the advent of the fox body Mustang in 1979, the distributor is up front where it belongs and can't possibly interfere with the firewall, and a great many of the things came with a compact, lightweight, easy to shift five speed overdrive manual transmission (world class T-5) that can be made right at home in an early car with the right shifter mods. And lastly, if your "little" 302 can't do it, putting the right arm in the basement gives you a 347 CID motor that will more than hold it own against most all of the 350 SBCs you're going to come up against.
Well everyone knows that "easy" is what hot rodding is all about.... Right? Never mind that the 350/350 combo just reeks of "Street Rod", and make no mistake, "billet Everything" is available for a SBC, this alone is enough to stick with the Chevy!! ... Sorry guys, no offense to those who have chosen the SBC, but since someone is asking, I think it might be time for something other than "old reliable".... Perhaps a Lincoln Y Block would fit the bill. That is what is going into my NEXT hot rod... How about a Rocket, a Cadillac, or a Hemi even... The SBC is a GOOD engine and all, but it is just a bit boring in my book... almost as exciting as CORN FLAKES....
IMO...the stock trans is not going to be happy with either engine. If you use it, start buying spairs.
Street Rodder magazine did a series a few years ago on how to put a Ford 5.0 into a '41 Ford. For example, on Page 108 of the February 2004 issue of Street Rodder there is an article detailing a great deal of the info needed to put a SBF into a '41 Ford. It has the specific parts numbers you would need to shorten the sbf, switch to the rear sump oil pan, and so on. I expect much of the info in that series of articles would be helpful in putting a 289 into a '38.
I put a Chevy into a 40 Ford and didnt have to cut the firewall ... it is the easiest swap, even if it is boring.
I went ahead and dig some digging and found some more of the articles from the series I mentioned in my first message. Street Rodder Issues: February 2004, one article -- page 108 (already mentioned) May 2004, two relevant articles -- page 62 for an article discussing use of an overdrive automatic with the 5.0 iin the '41 -- page 84 for info about changes to the crossmember, steering, and oil filter mount needed to get the engine to fit correctly in the '41 June 2004, one article -- page 138 for info about the steering column and also some about the column mounted shifter January 2005, one article -- page 133 for info about setting up pedals and a firewall mounted power brake setup to work with the new drivetrain
This thread makes me sick. Go SBC its easy? WTF, are we meant to be hot rodders of fucking what? Build the car the way you want it, if it means some more work so be it. If the hot rodders of days gone by had the 'easy route' view we would all be driving stock factory cars. Doc.
Jeeze Doc, Thats pretty wild. I plan on building the car the way I want and not owning a early V8 before I thought the best place to get a little guidance was by posting this sick little thread here. The responce has been incredible and I'm greatful for the feedback and ideas shared by everyone. The verdict swings to the extremes for sure, Chev or Ford. The emials that I've received have helped greatly to sway my thinking too. I've got access to both plants and I have no intention of grinding a mill thats going to blow away anything near me, I did that in my 30 A. To share with you my build plans, heres a picture: Right now she's a nice stock little ride with a factory floor shifter. All complete, All original except for the motor, that was pulled a couple years ago. Dont get me wrong, I'd love a late model flatty to put back in there but counting the costs of building up a flatty gives me great respect for those who have one and a wallet in need of monitary viagra. Thats why I was looking at modern mills and open to what plant it will be. It's a turn off to many and I'm sure a few will start to ignore this thread, but enough folk have swayed me to the Chev side that I'm going to head that way. Its a combination of accessability and financial ease and I think that is very much in keeping with the "traditional" hot rod spirit. The build will start next month and may be on the road by 2011 after my 39 Plymouth coupe thats been sidelined as of late. I have started the parts collecting now getting ready to drop the motor in next month. As for the big man hours, the stock interior will be pulled and saved ( its in excellent condition) and teh body modifications will begin after the install. I've had this concept in the back of my mind for 3 years and finally its going to happen. Here's a rendering of the final project goal: Again, everyone, thank you for your direction and feed back. Thats what makes HAMB the incredible community that it is.
I got it home yesterday and now the motor install project begins. I'm looking for all the components to do a chev install now, If anyone has any from past installs they would like to sell, I'd like to buy. Here's where it headed....
SBC is a highly traditional swap, popular since the first '55 hit a tree... It is a clean, neat, and powerful replacement for a flathead and was the engine of choice from the day it appeared. The SBF...not so much. It was always smaller than available Chevies, had bad geometry as a flathead replacement, and cost more per horsepower. There is NOTHING non traditional about an SBC, and there use in the '50's was limited only by the junkyard supply, which was hopelessly inadequate to the demand. And CRATE small blocks were highly desired, though few could afford them in those days!
Built my 37 coupe in 73,trust me,you need to get into the firewall,and lose the battery box,go to HS Auto class or welding school and do it yourself. It`s easy,but requires work. Have been Ford in a Ford since 73,and if you drove it,you`d luv it. Use a good high lift cam,just below flat tappet and anti-pumpups and it will sound and run great. If you need picts of what I did...I`d be glad to send`em. I used aluminum thinwall to cover firewall,you can use flat plate,22 ga. and a sheet metal brake can bend it right. I used a broken hacksaw blade put a bolt thru the hoes and get the angle of bend u need. Want more info,let me know,37
That says it all as far as I am concerned and I am a Ford man. But I respect the traditional way that many of the cars we all love were done. This is why I am going to replace my Flathead out with a built 283. Good luck on your build. So how is it coming along anyway?
Nothing wrong with a chevy mill,but I really like seeing a Ford in a Ford. Some folks in this thread keep repeating that you need to cut the firewall to do it. Rustyford40 and others have pointed out alternatives to that,so it seems that it can be acomplished.
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