I didn't see this perspective, but let me paint a scenario for you. Guy is getting rid of his old junk. Has the motor sitting on the floorin pieces in his garage and is in a hurry to put it back together so he can slap the tins on it and sell the car as a "it was running when I parked it" scenario. Impact wrench, throw everything together, snapped a couple of bolts in the process. Throw the pan on and get it in the car. I would not hesitate to completely dis***emble this motor and do a rebuild if I intended to actually use it. Do not be suprised if there is extensive machine work in it's near future. Pull the crank out and get that bolt taken out the right way, at the very least. Weld a nut on it or left hand drill, ez out it.
That should come out in a couple of different ways: It looks like you can easily centerpunch it exactly on center. Then drill it out with a left hand it if you have one. Else, a right hand bit. Note: the LH bit sets are sold with EXouts by Snap-On, etc. Reason is that the LH bit may or may not back it out. If it does, great, you saved one step. If not, well, you still can use an EZ out. Another note: make sure you know how deep you can drill without getting into something that should not be drilled!!!! Second way, walk it around with a punch and back it out that way. Third way, take a worn out Dremel cutoff wheel and grind a slot in the center of the bolt. Then back it out with a screwdriver. Fourth, weld something on. I understand that you want to watch that you don't booger something up. Fifth, drill the exact right sized hole and then hammer in an allen wrench. This is a variant of the EZout technique that works if you don't have an EZout or if you are paranoid about snapping one off. Practice on another bolt so you select the exact right sizes (you want the allen to grip but not too tight or other problems may ensue). Finally, drilling a center hole in the broken piece relieves internal stresses and makes it that much easier to get out. So any of the above ideas (except for the weld idea, although you can drill a 1/4 inch hole, insert some round stock or even an allen wrench, tack weld it, bend the long end 90 degrees, and presto built in removal wrench) will benefit from a center hole first, even if it is a much tinier hole than you would use for an EZout. Yes, I am really good at getting broken fasterers out, comes with working on a lot of old stuff, the longer I spend on this reply the more ideas I will come up with. Remember that there is no one correct answer - the art is in matching your specific situation with exactly what you have to work with.
This only applies to "torque to yeild bolts". when a torque to yield bolt is torqued and then turned a predetermined amount of degrees it is stretched elasticly to just before the point were it begins to plasticly deformed, If taken back to this point more than once it may actually begin to plasticly deform which means it will stretch and not return to its original length. thats why you cant reuse them, or shouldnt. Some you actually can reuse it just depends on how close to that point of plastic yeilding the engine manufacturer designed the torque sequence.
I agree. It's obvious. What broke the bolt is irrevelent. Side issue; No doubt that #1 or #2 in the chain of custody knew about it though.
Since you have never ran the motor, it has broken bolts, and you have no clue what else is hidden, and it's obviously not in the car, it's time for a tear-down & rebuild. Have a shop go through the block. If you don't feel comfortable removing the broken bolts, they will do it for you. Do not re-use any of the bolts. They stretch when torqued. Use new bolts. I'd use ARP on the entire rotating ***embly. Not traditional but WTF- no one will ever see them & you can forget about them. Use ARP's thread stuff when you torque. I'd rather start with a fresh build than be worrying about it if you band-aid fix it. Who knows what the PO did to it.
I would start with the easiest way first. Plym49 is right,,use a center punch (or similar punch) and hit it on the side close to the edge. It will back that dude right out. If that doesn't do it,,,get a ittle more persuasive and do his othert suggestions. Odds are you can fix this without spending a lot of money. As to the condition of the engine. Is it rusted inside?,,, is it locked up?,, do the bearings look good?,,what about the valley area under intake,,look good? Do you have the old spark plugs,,do they look decent? These things will all give you indicators to the condition of the engine. Unless you want to do a complete rebuild,,I would look at all of these things and decide how much money you want to spend. You can probably run this engine as is after you fix your problems,,(jusy my opinion),,you must pay attention to the details of the engine (condition),,and what it is telling you. The broken bolts may be the reason it was parked to start with,,( bottom end noise). By the way,,I would replace the rear main seal while I was there,,you have the cap removed anyway,,Right? Good luck! Tommy
boy what a realief I got the broken stud out with a center punch and a light hammer and alot of pateince. As for the motor all the bearings look good and I had two experienced friends that I trust take a quick look and give me thier honest opinion, and they both said a compleat rebuild definetly wouldent be a bad idea but I could probly get away with new quality bolts torqued down properly. Anybody know if buick 215 stud kit from T and A would work on a 300?? or were I could get 300 bolts at??
whats not traditional, ARP has been around for a long time, screw traditional i want the best hardware possible in an engine. I'm not taking a chance on head or crank bolts. this is a point where traditional becomes stupid.
Have you tried checking with a Buick dealer? At some dealers they have good parts guys that keep old parts manuals around. Surely they still offer replacement bolts for these engines? These main bolts have to interchange with different models as well. Just an idea. Tommy
I once had the pan off on a 327 Chevy and found a main cap bolt in the pan. It broke somewhere in the middle and once I took the main cap off, the rest unscrewed by hand. The bearing looked amazingly fine. I took another bolt out of my parts stash, slapped it together and it ran fine. Not a peep out of it prior or after the repair. Bob
Take measurements off one of your good bolts and talk to ARP or T/A or Summit. Get the dimensions of the 215 bolts. my bet is they are close. The 225 V-6 is basically a 215 with two cylinders cut off (different bore/stroke ratio). The timing covers even interchange. The heads interchange from the 215 to the 300, so the mains may also.
nope I thought so to but I just got of the phone with Tand A and they said the 215 wont work, They are buick experts so I trust what they said.
Make it to powerhouse today? If not there try Barnes machine on 18th. Barnes as in the famous Jim Barnes (RIP) his shop is still open and ran by his wife. Good folks got a model A flywheel balanced there today.-Weeks
thanks for all the feedback and patience. I went to powerhouse today, that place is cool cant believe I have never been there before, they didnt have anything but they told me to try a bolt store. so I got a set of grade 8's for it. I was looking on the link to ARP lostforawhile posted and it talked about tortional sheer witch is what mine looked like and it talked about using the wrong lubricant or none. So what should I use on the bolts?? just antisieze??
I would not use grade 8 bolts from a bolt store. Main cap bolts are special. Look at one of the original, unbroken bolts. They have a shoulder under the head to help locate the bearing cap. Bite the bullet and find the correct bolts. You won't be sorry!
Ya can't just put pieces in place and expect anything better than what you found in your pan. #8 bolts won't get the job done for long. Do yourself a Favor and go to your local Motor builder and listen to him. Then have Him order you a set of ARP "Main Cap" studs and move on. Anything less than O.E.M. or ARP is just a band-aid. The Wizzard
Call ARP. Talk to a tech. Cut as many links out of the chain as possable. Much better chance of getting the right parts. I have bought main studs for my '32 Plymouth 4 and '26 Dodge 4 as well as head studs for the Y block head on the '32 Plymouth by calling and asking. You will not find any of these in the catologe
FYI, I have seen this happen when an impact is used on hardened bolts. The shock of the impact can cause hairline cracks.
I kinda had second thoughts about the grade 8's but powerhouse sugested them so I ***umed it would work. I will call ARP today.
putting cheap hardware store grade 8 bolts on your engine is nuts, those are not ordinary bolts by any means, they have a lot of load on them from the piston reversing direction, cheap bolts won't cut it.
Thanks for setting me straight. The more I think about it I cant believe I was going to use grade 8's, I guess it was the welding fumes or fustrated that I couldent find anything. I called ARP and ordered a set of bolts and washers to do it the right way.
Wow they said grade 8 bolts huh. Yeah no, glad you called ARP and they got it sorted out for you. I will have to talk with those guys down at Powerhouse about that ****.-Weeks
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