I got these two pieces of potmetal that I think might look pretty neat on a custom car grill. They are both pitted and will need an obvious rechrome job. However, I am curious if there is a way to "weld" them together. I would like to be able to grind the "weld" smooth for chroming but I am pretty sure that it cannot be "welded". So, my question is this..is there a way to put to peices together without bolting and get it smooth enough to chrome? thanks, tok
There are proper filler rods for welding potmetal. And I think Polisher suggested using Silver Solder, which would probably be easier and safer.
There is a solder for it made by solder-it. Supposed to be specifically for pot metal, melts at very low temerature. I had no luck with it. But I didn't pre-heat the part. I believe that is quite essential. Basically I looked at what looked like 3 million zits and thought, solder all of them? File it all smooth, polish it, and keep the detail? Nah... I'll get it to somebody that does potmetal. Too much bloody hard work for too little money, and it still seems outrageously expensive to those that haven't done or tried it. You might have better luck and patioence than me. I can't hack it, and I'm pretty patient.
Maybe that "welding rod" they hawk at swap meets that welds beercans with a propane torch would work with potmetal. I don't think you could get near it with a elec. or OA welderwithout turning it into a puddle. PB
this site has some cool stuff on it! Never thought pot metal could be welded! www.muggyweld.com that blue heat paste is cool! Anyone ever use that stuff to prevent warping on a long weld (as opposed to doing it the "usual" way in short segments)?
Boy, I would love to know if that muggyweld product actually worked in a structural situation--not just for filling gaps or voids. My door vent window frame on my 2-door hardtop is broken off where the "leg" extends down into the door (as if someone grabbed the vent window frame and broke it off at the top of the door) and the ones that I have found from salvage companies (I gave up finding a reproduction) are around $400. The frame, of course, is pot metal and everyone says I'm out of luck fixing it.
I dont know anyone that has had good results with Muggyweld or those other miracle solders. Especially important where strength is important. Ive mentioned silver solder on here many times as Ive been using it for over 30 years on pot metal. BUT IT MUST BE PURE JEWLERS SILVER SOLDER, absolutely no lead. Lead will poison the platers tank and the plater will probably dunk you in the solution. I havent tried the recent (around here anyway) lead free plumbers silver solder. Dont know the wire alloy or the flux contents.
I used a tig and some aluminum rod and put all three pieces of a 1959 impala gauge cluster together. The rod puddled nice and I was able to grind the welds down with a dremel. I was suprised and dont know why it worked but it did. The gauge cluster looked like potmetal.
thanks for the input so far.. My options are muggyweld..the swap meet super amazing solder, tig with the right rod, or silver solder. I will be on the look out to try them. Luckily my piece isn't structural, simply decoration. If I can find something that works then I will be in like flynn baby..yeah.. tok
I've tried pure silver solder too, didn't work for me. I leave it to the experts. I know a few platers that reckon solder-it is the business. Whaterver happens, then you have to flat it. Then move on to the next pit. Too much for me. All the more power to those that can master it. Your very right about the lead. Kiss of death to a nickel tank. Not good.
Are you positive its pot metal? I would think its cast aluminum! A friend of mine just broke one like you`re talking about on a 57 Caddy Baritz and thought it was pot too. It was cast alum & we had it heli.
I didn't take the class but saw some pieces done at UVU streetrodding -metal Fab welding class. One of the regular old timers there did a lot of aerospace welding in his working days and his stuff looked great. I don't know what or how they do it.
Tokyo- Here's a thread I posted over on the Los Boulevardos board last year about welding pot metal. http://www.losboulevardos.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=4300 My Grandfather was a welder all his life and was able to TIG a piece for me. The interesting thing, however, is that at the end someone questions whether you can chrome plate pieces that are fixed this way. I still haven't gotten my grill out to the plater so I can't say for sure but it's something to consider.
Slate, Thx for the link to muggyweld. I placed it in my favorites and will look it over later. I started reading the original post and was going to suggest the car show rods, which are either Aladdin, or one of the many similarly alloyed rods on the market, some of which I have used on aluminum. But you sort of threw that out the window when you mentioned plating when finished. I dunno whether or not the Aladdin type rods will take plating. I do know that in time, the surface of the filler metal will turn dark gray due to, I'm told, zinc content. I've got a Ford script emblem that is intended to go on the glove box door of the shortened and sectioned '35 Ford dash in my "A" roadster Hi-Boy I'm building. This was set up by the previous owner, who furnished the emblem, but broken in half. Holes are already drilled in the glove box door. Considering using JB Weld, or some other epoxy, but I don't think it's gonna need a replate, and it's just gonna be a butt joint, hopefully not too noticeable. But you can bet I've subscribed to this thread, and I,m gonna follow it. Dave
I notice that there is no address anywhere for the Muggyweld company. A toll free number and an email address. All make him totally anonomous and completely free to say ANYTHING he wants about his products. He also refueses to send out samples or sell single wires for testing or evaluation. So that means that he is NOT looking for repeat sales, he is looking to get as large a single sale from the a as he can because he knows that 99% of the buyers won't be back. It might work, but it has all the earmarks of a snake oil salesman to me.
I do pot metal repair all the time here at the chrome shop. What we do and most platers will do is copper strike the pot metal piece/pieces, then solder to the very thin copper strike. I have used this method for structural pieces and no problems with weld strength. We use a lead-free silver-bearing solder. Years ago, we used lead solder, but it was more fickle to plate than the lead-free, and still needed the copper strike. We do not use pure silver for repairs, not even tried it. Even if it did work, it would be way too pricey for all the solder we go through. We tried the muggy welding rod years ago. It works OK, although it is tricky. My big gripe was getting plating to stick to it. It is possible, but a PITA. I recommend letting your plater do the repairs, there are too many variables.
A fellow hamber used alumna rod to fix his pot metal peices.He used oxygen and acetylene ,instead of propane. I know this for a fact.
Every Big Car show that I go to. There is always a guy selling that Rod you can use to repair it. East Coast West Coast those booths are everywhere selling that stuff.
I had 2 headlight buckets for a 52 Stude, a one year off so looking for another pair was almost impossible unless you paid big $$, so, I took it to a local shop here in Az they fabricate all sort of alum stuff. They managed to weld the buckets back together believe me quite a chore and then I finished filed the buckets and now at the chromer..... waiting for results.
CHROMEPLATERJOSH hit it right on the head. To do it right, the pieces need to be copper flashed. Each "pit" or "pimple" needs to be drilled out, flashed, then filled. The pieces need to be chemically cleaned, repaired, smoothed, polished, then copper flashed when done...
I repaired a hood ornament one time with that beer can welding rod stuff. best to perheat item then use an oyx/act torch, as you can get in, heat and get out fast, before the whole thing melts. With propane it heats too slowly and you end up with the whole peice getting to the melting point at the same time-not good.
The rods work.I use them regularly. the flux the temp/flame and cleanliness are all very important factors but technique is at least half the trick .too much heat or a dirty flame and it wont fly ! here is my handy hint .for small pieces like knobs,levers catches and trims ,try using those small refillable gas blow torches you get at smoke shops .they give a good clean localised flame,good on small stuff.
^ Great description. I'll add that you really have to get the weld surface ground clean, pot metal forms a thick oxide layer (fairly quickly) and the oxide layer melts at a much higher temperature than the underlying material. End result of imprecise heat is you end up with a bag of liquid metal inside the solid skin. And you don't realize it til the whole part is distorted. Good luck!
Brazing temps are pretty much the same as the melt point of pot metal so it would be more like welding with a dis-similar filler rod. I'm sure a talented/experienced brazer can probably do it, but sort of defeats the intent of brazing. Ultimately the products designed for pot metal melt at about half of brazing temps, in order to generate the same kind of mechanical bond as braze on steel or aluminum.
A good welding supply store has pot metal rod,such as CK.When welding potmetal use a tig and turn the gas flow up,this aids in cooling the metal around the weld.When possible try putting some type of backup material such as brass.As we know welding pot metal is like welding 2 sticks of butter together but it can be done.Also depends on the quality of the pot metal,some is better than others.Patience and some experience pays off. Good luck
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