Projects Track Roadster 16 yrs in the making

LB+1

I sure hope you are correct about the suspension. You summarize our design goals nicely, but the proof of the pudding is in the eating...so we'll see.

The combinations and permutations of torsion bar spring rates are huge. Solid, thin wall and thich wall hollow bars are available in lots of indexed sizes. Unfortunately we don't have unlimited time or $$, but if we get in a bind (sorry, bad pun) we can always call the sprint car guys for advice.

As far as putting the pedal to the metal, I am mostly worried about the V8 quickchange; however, as the roadster will have a small tire contact patch I shouldn't break axles, differentials or universals.

Thanks for the imput.

trakrodstr

 

Well, I'll put in another yay vote on the color. I love it and the seat material looks remarkably similar in color and grain to my all-original '52 Chevy Wagon (of course it's vinyl though). It was a great read start-to-finish and the final pictures couldn't be in a more appropriate setting, though of course I'm biased . If I were you I'd contact The Rodder's Journal, it's an appropriate car for one of their features.

 

At this point, I agree with the color choice. But too much of a good thing may be too much. I am by far no expert on paint design. I do know that you may be at a good point to consider a two tone. I think that painting the top or bottom half of the body would look really rich.

 

Interesting you should mention that. All my early renderings of the roadster were two colors with a large scallop motif that covered most of the nose. I am guessing that after I have lived with the monotone for a while, I'll try a couple of large vinyl stick-ons to see whether I like the scallop color scheme. If so, then I can have the painting done. Ahh, yes, but what color you ask....?

Thanks for the good news regarding the resemblance to your 50s vinyl interior, hooray. I too think that Rodders Journal would be cool. I am a charter member subscriber (Vol 1, Issue 1) and I have called twice and emailed photos twice.

The telephone person would not let me speak to anyone with editorial say so; neither of the emails were answered. I surmise that if you are not plugged in via some old-boy network there is little chance for admittance into this group.

That is why this open forum for hot rodders is so refreshing.

Cheers
trakrodstr

 

Are you going to drive the TR back from Jacks? For some reason I am thinking he is going to do a shake down while its there.

 

LB+1,

I would like ot drive the TR back from Jack's but it's pretty far. There is a tentative plan to ship the car to Denver and I would "pick it up" there.

Before Jack let's it go we both want to have a final meeting in Missoula and I'll get to drive the car a few hundred miles. That way gremlins can be found and resolved.

I expect I'll fly up to Montanta in the first part of Sept. I'll definitely keep you and the other HAMBers posted.

I may have a chance to post some detail photos on the thread this weekend.

Thank you for your continued interests.

trakrodstr

 

That car is just beautiful.

 

OK gang, here are some more photos. The first batch shows a bit more interior detail, although there is not a great deal that is new. One photo shows the leather on the interior of the passenger compartment (inside of the quarter panel). The steering wheel has been coated, but is missing the badge in hub area. The hole in the rear deck is the opening for the roll bar.

 

Until these photos I had not seen the gauges mounted in the cowling complete with paint and nickel plating. It was fun to finally see them in their real habitat. The shot from the passenger side shows that the glovebox is big enough to be really useful. The shot from behind the car shows that the top of the windshield has a slight curve (upward). Jack did this is so that the top of the windshield appears straight when viewed from the front. Otherwise the upward curve of the cowling would create an optical illusion making the top of the windshield appear to curve downward. Cool. Note that the rearview mirror is mounted to the driver’s side windshield stanchion. Again there is an open hole in the rear deck for the roll bar. The final photo shows the steering wheel in place with the correct finish and fasteners. Switch panels are mounted below the dashboard.

 

Here are some more detail shots. The first photo shows a good view of the passenger side front wheel assembly. The finish of the custom-made brake drum contrasts well with the painted backing plate. This photo also shows the headlight assembly. The buckets are painted stainless steel; as mentioned earlier, these are old Perlux fog lamps as used on 18-wheelers. The lights have been converted to halogen lamps.

The side view of the engine allows a clear view of the bright nickel valve covers and the bronzed ignition wire covers. The drag link is wrapped with newspaper, but the pitman arm can be seen clearly, Jack fabricated it from a torsion bar lever arm. Note that there are three positions whereby the drag link can articulate with the pitman arm, thus allowing subtle adjustment of the steering ratio.

The next photo also shows a view of the engine area, the exhaust pipe beyond the clamp will be covered by a heat shield to protect the passenger's leg from burning. The shield clamps to a bracket on the frame, a photo of the heat shield is included here. The shield is fabricated from woven stainless steel cloth, .035 inch wire on 1/4 inch centers.

The close-up photo shows a good view of the rear view mirror and its mounting bracket. The mount is designed to allow one to move the mirror outboard of the windshield stanchion, which would provide a better view to the rear, but would not be as unobtrusive.

The last photo shows a different view of the mirror area. Note the “door knob” or release. This is a cut down door knob from a late 20s Dodge Bros passenger car, I won a set of 4 on Ebay about 10 years ago.

 

The low gloss of the green makes my eye search for all the build Q's. And I think that is a good thing.

 

trakrodstr, The car is looking mighty fine. Looking forward to seeing the finished car. Have you decided on a trip to Willow Springs for the Walt James Classic thanksgiving weekend ?

41 Dave

 

The steering column....is it covered with tubing or a "live" shaft? I'm thinking it's covered with tubing because the column drop seems to be against the column with no bearing or bushing, but is very small diameter....whatever the case, I really like this project.

 

wow, how cool is this?

 

Hey LB+1, my man,

Once again you are helping me along, thanks for all your encouragement. Your words come at a good time as I am having trouble getting my insurance lined up so I can get my roadster titled...what a pain in the ass.

Things are lookin' up though, and I think I made some headway today because I finally found an collector car agent who understands what Jack and I have been trying to do.

Keep on spreading good cheer. you're from Louisiana...right?

41 Dave,

I called the vice prez of the Western Racing Assoc. and he was very kind and encouraging; however, he said that no cars could run that had glass windshields or headlights (glass). Is the Walt James Classic the sanctioned by the WRA? Can you tell me the details regarding who to contact and what kinds of cars are eligible? Is there provision for non-race prepared cars to make demonstration runs?

I'm really interested, so any info would help.

Thanks

Jeem

My memory is sketchy, and I'll check with Jack, but I think the steering shaft is a contemporary oval track racing piece with a tubular jacket made from material Jack had in his pile of salvaged and scrap metal; which is probably why it is skinny. As discussed earlier the shaft has a modern sprint car steering wheel release at one end. The lower end is coupled to the steering reduction gear to slow down the quick ratio found in the Schroeder steering gear box. I am unaware of anything special about the arrangement. You are correct that the column drop attaches to the outer housing.

Thank you for looking and your welcome comments. It is really fun for me to think that rodders on the far side of the world are aware of our efforts.

I wish I could travel to NZ for your summer and miss the winter here in the US Midwest. By the way I just finished a good novel about the LRDG commandos and the role the New Zealanders played in the battle for North Africa, it seems your forebears were men of extraordinary courage and fortitude. The book is "Killing Rommel" by Steven Pressfield, 2008.

******************

Question to all interested HAMBers...should I post some less recent "detail" photos? I'm out of fancy new images...There is a new gear shift lever I have never seen, based entirely on Harry Miller's design and some trim stuff for the windshield, but most of the progress is wiring, hydraulics and so forth. So I'm running out of "new" features.

Thanks to all HAMBer for their interest and comments this forum experience has been, and continues to be, exceptionally fun and rewarding.






trakrodstr

 

if you ever get a chance to come over, yourd love it. we got a pretty decent scene over here. yup, our forebears were real solid characters. both the early kiwis and ausies fought with great meret. as far as more pics go, we all love more pics! im sure this car will be in a magazine oneday.

 

I like it,I like it WOW!!!!

 

OK the Kiwi contact would like more photos. I have two left from the last batch of images...kind of boring, but it's what I have that's new.

The first is the fuel filter between the gas tank and the electric fuel pump. The second image is the fuel pump with a second small pore fuel filter. Both assemblies are mounted on custom brackets, which will then attach to the inside surface of the passenger side frame rail. The parts are over the counter OEM replacement parts available at a General Motors dealer...I think the parts date to the late 80s V8 powered chevys. Nothing special here, but OEM is good quality at a reasonable price. There are of course lots of fancy high performance parts but this fuel pump and the filters are more than adequate. Also the parts can be replaced a your neighborhood parts store.

The units are attached with T-bolt clamps, which are available at a "real" hardware store. I like the look of the T-bolts compared to the more common stainless steel band clamps. The rubber material is to isolate the hum/vibration of the electric fuel pump.

See there is something practical on my track roadster.

 

dirt t

Thanks man, looks like you have a real dirt track inspired car...cool.

Keep them track roadsters comin'

 

If the Devil is in the details, you sir, must be Satan!

 

Clever ! ur done a fine job , love the Green,its a Colour I have been thinking about for a while with our project.
Ur 27 is like a good wine , gets better with age !lol

 

Louisiana - yes sir and I am poor!

Insurance and Title - sad - you can't tell Bureaucracy the whole truth.

It is like a dirt track rule book - It tell's you what you can't do - not what you can do!

 

Cleverly stated and much appreciated. Of course, this was not a rush job so I certainly should get most of the details right. I give Jack a lot of credit. He kept me from lots of dumb mistakes.

The color question is running a bit in my favor, but I am pretty sure HAMBers who dislike the color are not motivated to write and let me know. It will be fun to stand by the car at a car show "anonomously" and listen to what people say.

In any case I'm glad you like the color and thanks for your kind thoughts.

trakrodstr

 

LB+1

Hey, Louisiana is fantastic, the most individual of all our states. I have visited your state MANY times from top to bottom, East to West. If one wants to see a culturally distinct region with a rich heritage...go to Louisiana. And as Rusty and Doug said..."Gotta make a livin' i'm a Louisiana Man"....you hang in there.

Correct, The insurance bureaucracy makes the DMV look like a day in the park...until you actually go to the DMV. Truthfully, the DMV isn't so bad in Kansas but the !@##$*!! laws for hot rods really suck.

I hear you on how to handle the "rules" for hot rods...you got it.

I'll finish with another of Rusty and Doug's song titles..."Diggy Liggy Lo" my favorite cajun song...COOL!

Trakrodstr

 

No new photos right now, instead I have posted two of the earliest photos I have, and one from four years later. The first photo shows the first mock-up in Greg Peek’s shop (at the time) in Englewood Colorado (Denver). The frame rails were not boxed and the sheet metal is simply sitting there. The nose is a fiberglass part that Greg owned; it was mounted just for fun. This view does show that in order to keep the hood line from dropping too quickly the nose would have had to be very tall (massive). Alternatively the cowling could be sectioned to lower the “back” edge of the hood, which in turn would allow a smaller more pleasing nose. Readers of this whole thread know that Jack Presse channeled the cowling approximately 4 inches, thus allowing a handsome hood angle and nose size. This photo was taken in February 1998.<o></o>

The next photo shows a T56 Borg Warner trans (6 speed) originally planned for use in the roadster; however, I decided very soon after this photo was taken (Feb 1998) that the trans was way too long. By the way the trans was completely and meticulously rebuilt; I still have it if someone is looking for such a unit. The engine is shown not too long after was blueprinted by Bill Fisk in Charleston SC. Also, the steel panels required to “box” the 32 frame rails are lying on the floor near the engine stand. Yeah that’s a Bonneville roadster and the nose of a 50s Indy car in the background.<o></o>

The last photo was taken in 2003. Jack and I had a meeting to decide where to go with the build. The metal rod shows an imaginary hood line based on the stock (unsectioned) 29 Model A cowling. This was when Jack suggested that we would have to lower the cowling to avoid a way too big nose. You can see some internal structure was completed by this time and the gas tank is sitting in place. The rails remain unboxed and the Mopar center-plane brake assemblies are sitting on the floor. The motor mounts are in place. It was during this session that the ultimate stance of the roadster was established. The coupe and the Model T, in the background, are long since completed customer cars of Jack’s. The photo was taken at Jack’s former shop in Aurora CO (Denver).<o></o><!--EndFragment-->

 

Shift levers aren’t too exciting, but this chapter of the project description might be one that lots of HAMBers will find useful, and possibly a source of ideas for their own hot rods. Harry Miller’s beautiful racecars are the inspiration for the underlying theme of my track roadster. Since the best Millers were single seaters and pure race machines there’s not too much that translates directly to a hot rod; the gear shift lever however falls into the category of easily replicated. <o>
</o><o></o>
I asked Jack to consult his copy of Mark Dee’s magum opus “The Miller Dynasty” for inspiration and he (Jack) replied with the lever featured below. To get the ball rolling I include three photos I took at the 2003 Miller Meet at the Milwaukee Mile track. The images were not originally taken to record the lever shapes, but these are the best images I have and to be frank, mine are better than the images I as able to find on the Milleroffy.com “official” web page.<o>

</o> The number 3 Prefect Circle front-drive Miller 91 (cu in), shows a partial close up and a distant shot. Not the best images, but you can see a constant design theme that Harry Miller insisted upon. The brake and shift levers were rectangular, in cross section, at the base, where the device attached to the pivot, then tapered to a dowel or rod shaped cross section at the knob end. This is seen to better advantage on the Bowes Seal Fast Special. I like the round aluminum knob, which Miller cast with a hollow core, but the feel of a metal shift knob doesn’t appeal to me. <o>

</o> Jack reached into his pile of scrape metal goodies and found a thin steel plate of the correct thickness (approx 3/8 in). He scribed a tapered profile slightly wider than the desired size. Accommodation was made for sufficient beef at the pivot end to allow room for fastener holes and good strength. Note that Jack did not complete his cut, but left the metal partially intact so that it could be gripped squarely in the vise while he conducted most of the heavy grinding and shaping. Once he had the general shape Jack completed the cut. <o>

</o> The images are pretty much self-explanatory. Bosses were shaped around the mounting holes. Jack heated the new lever and made a bend near the base end, patterned on a mock shift lever he had fashioned earlier. The angle and lenght was determined by having me sit in the seat (long ago before a real seat existed) and place my hand/arm in a comfortable position were the shift knob would (eventually) land. The bend/length can, of course, be modified until the results are satisfactory for any given driver. <o>

</o> Note that the taper, from a rectangular cross-section to a round cross-section, begins low on the lever near the base. Hurst copied Miller’s design style on their shift levers, but the taper began well toward the knob end; consequently, in my opinion (and Harry Miller’s), the Hurst design is not as elegant as Miller’s original.

The hex key fasteners (bolts) were ground and shaved to conform better to the shape of the bosses surrounding the mounting holes. The lever mounts to the Tremec gear selector in a conventional fashion.<o>

</o> When mounted the lever looks like it was born in the roadster…once again Jack’s magic and great eye come through. For the time being the plain black ball will remain, no need to guild the lily. The lever has been sent to the plating shop for the nickel coating.

The view of the transmission shows the front shifter kit that was installed so that the gear selector was stationed in the most forward of three possible positions. I am told that the front shifter kit is no longer being made and may be in short supply. If you want such a kit it may be wise to get one soon. I bought mine years ago from Forte’s Parts. Their web page still lists the front shifter kit. Unless you are a skilled transmission technician it might be wise to have a qualified mechanic install the front shifter kit [http://www.fortesparts.com/catalogDisplay.cfm?cat=90]. <o>

</o> Also, some Tremec shops are now marketing an external hydraulic clutch release cylinder. If you haven’t yet purchased a clutch slave cylinder this option is worth a look… too late for my roadster, but ease of maintenance would be much better with an external slave cylinder. <o>

</o> Jack told me late today that he was adding motor oil to the bottomless oil pan! Apparently he was at 8 quarts and counting, but since he was able to get oil pressure with four quarts in the pan he should find the capacity soon. The modification of the big flat vintage racing boat oil pan was described earlier in this thread — lots of capacity but no sump. When you remember that I have a two (2) quart oil accumulator, I may go broke keeping the D500 Hemi oiled up correctly. I’ll keep you HAMBers posted.
<o></o>
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Check out the new chapter describing fabrication of a Milleresque shift lever.

 

HOORAY! Today was a milestone for sure. The roadster is now officially insured, registered and has a brand new Kansas license plate.

For the time being the plate is a standard Kansas "Antique" plate, but I have a vingtage 1929 Kansas passenger car license plate that I am going to try and restore myself. When the '29 plate is finished I'll go back to DMV and have the registration switched.

1929 Kansas plates show a sunflower yellow field with black lettering. I think that combo will look good against the drab green paint.

Sorry there are no new photos, but some are on the way.

The most important aspect of having insurance and registration is that the car can now be road tested without taking a big risk.

 

So, is it in town?

 

I can see that smile from here -