Pull it out tear it down. You have a time bomb on your hands the wear you found is in other places you can not see. Or drive the hell out of it and possibly throw a rod.
For Desoto291Hemi ....When the pushrod ate thru the lifter it set up a huge gap (lash) between the rocker arm allowing the pushrod to slip out of alignment. As the lifter comes up on the cam and pushrod there is no place for the pushrod to go as it is no longer being pushed against the end of the rocker (that will move) but somewhere near the shaft (that won't.) To put it another way it was ****ed and could no longer transfer the movement at the proper angle.
#### Dude do you use the old KICK THE TIRES AND LIGHT THE FIRE METHOD ??? I mean holy ****ing **** man how in the hell could you not notice something going just a little bit wrong in the engine compartment ??? And your asking us if we think you should tear the engine down for a cleaning and a rebuild after it ground the entire bottom off of the lifters !!! And the cat that told you all of that **** that ground off of the lifters should be trapped in the oilfilter most deff has my vote !!! >>>>.
Anti-freeze is possibly the worst lubricant available, listen to the majority and tear it down...or put the money in a good pair of WALKIN' shoes.
Hey Dry Lakes, Sounds like a good observation,,never occured to me to think of that,,makes sense to me. Hey Engine Pro,,I'm with you man,,had to make a Hell of a racket while it was running. Tommy
If you have a lot of **** in the filter it went through the oil pump to get there. I would at least as a minimum pull some rod caps and maybe a main and replace the oil pump. Then sell it.
Here is my thought. With an extra gallon (did you say) of water in the pan, the crank likely churned it into that nice goopy mess that you found. The damage was likely caused by lack of oil getting anywhere. I don't think the oil pump would move that ****. If it was caused by lack of oil, you know that all of the bearings are toast. Just my thoughts
There were 2 pushrods that got bent, they were both intake valves. The lifters on the exhaust valves in those same cylinders collapsed because of the hole worn in the bottom side (on the cam lobe). Now the exhaust valve barely opens and is closed at the end of the stroke. The last part of the stroke is compressing air in the cylinder and the holding the intake valve closed. When it does open, there is a pop out of the carb from the compressed air which I heard numerous times when I was trying to clean the system out and "unstick the lifters". This is why the pushrods bent. At the engine builders request, I ran the engine for about 10 minutes this way. Nothing was changing and I could not stand the rattle and popping it was making so I shut it down. I started it up about 2 weeks later to see if anything was changed and the popping and rattle was gone. Now is was just missing. When I removed the valve covers, I discovered the bent pushrods.
Please post the name of your engine guy's shop so that we can all avoid the same disaster! Seriously dude if you show all this to your engine guy and he doesn't feel obligated to right the wrong then I say F**k him!!! Friend or not he should have the professional courtesy to fix an error that caused that level of destruction!
You definitely need a different "engine guy". He is either ignorant or a liar. From my past experience of working in a engine rebuilding shop, I would say that the only thing that does not need to come out of that engine for cleaning would be the freeze plugs. You are going to have to do this VERY soon anyway because the metal that's missing (worn off) the cam & lifters is going to wipe it out for sure if you try to drive it after that event. At this point you may be able to save the crank & rods. There's only one sensible choice here I think. Sorry. Your "engine guy" is responsible for sure in this case.
You will lose more time screwing around looking, than just getting busy and pulling it. I have had the same sludge in jeep and chevy motors from four wheeling. Trust me when I say that nothing good is going to happen if that engine isn't torn down and tanked. If you are lucky there will be no machine work needed. Put fresh rings and bearings in it and get it back on the road.
I had a comp cam do the exact same thing WITHOUT the antifreeze in the oil. Mine was probably due to improper break in. I had a Pro Form Distributor (never use that brand again) go south during the break in. I had about 1000 miles-ish on mine also and mine did that in a 15 mile drive home. I knew something was wrong but had to get home.
Is the builder going to help you out in any way? Or are you on your own? If he isn't going to help you in any way, I would probably do what porkn****** suggested, and pull the pan before going any farther. If the bearings look okay and you can clean everything else, it should be alright. The flip side would be to pull the motor and start over.
Hmmm...too bad. ALL of the cam lobes that I can see in the pics are f'n wasted. You had problems on all of the lobes. I'm curious about the black coloration on the inside of the valve cover (under the white oil/water ****).......were the covers even cleaned at some point during the rebuild? Looks awefully dirty for a motor with mere minutes of run time on it. I'd think you should see a clean metallic cover surface with white **** on it rather than what we're looking at.....could just be the camera too. What were the cam specs? If your over 0.500" lift on any FE (regardless of what the tards on the cam company tech line say) you NEED adjustable rocker arms to obtain correct geometry and proper lifter pre-load. No exceptions. If you have bent push rods (and the dumb-*** engine builder told you to run the motor ten minutes "to see if anything changes" as it was popping back through the carb as you were reving it to 'clean it out') then its quite possible that you also may have some bent valves, etc. You really need to pull the entire motor apart and take a look at whats going on. -Bigchief.
I built a 355 with a 671 and the cam lived all day. I pulled it back out and the brand new steel crank was ****. Vat block, new cam bearings, new crank shaft ,new cam and lifters, new gasket set... yup pissed all that money away.
If the engine builder was regarding you as a friend the way you are regarding him the first thing he should have done was pull your motor and correct the issue. Majority of times I see other builders offering suggestions to customers with problems it's from trying to get themselves off the hook. I machine and build engines for a living and have sadly seen alot of "builders" give the rest of us a bad rap. Again, his first reaction should have been to fix it.
With all of the cool threads about Bonneville and all of the rest of the stuff going on this thread keeps coming to the top !! I say push the entire mess of **** into the dumpster and go get you a traditional small block chevy !! Case closed !! Done !! Oh yeah this is just my opinion >>>>.
Sorry Bud, not going to put a SMC in a 61 Ford Starliner, just wouldn't be right. Guess you are just going to have to ignore this thread
Good eyes !!. Your are right about the black stuff , Its Rust . these were used valve covers and they were hot tanked but I think that was about it. There must have been untreated rust inside that came back as soon as there was moisture on it. I would have ***umed with all that oil inside the valve cover that any rust would be squelched, but there must be a lot of moisture in there. I plan to convert that rust somehow before the valve covers go back on. Any suggestions? Cam Lift is .469 intake and .495 Exhaust. besides the 2 bent pushrods, I saw that about 4 more have a bad wear pattern on the rocker end. looks like I need to check rockers as well. When I first heard the popping I shut it down immediately and called the builder. He said it was probably just a sticky valve and it would loosen up when all the bad oil was flushed thru. He said to make sure I have fresh oil in it and run it up to temp for 10-20 minutes or so and the noise should start going away. It never did.
The more you talk about this I think you deserve what you get !! And my name aint bud it's Bruce !! We are laughing so hard at you and your engine builder that we can't take much more !!! How in the **** could a new engine have a sticky valve and BAD OIL ?? As I said I can't believe you keep posting this **** >>>>.
+1!!!!! Please just pull the motor and find somebody who understands FE motors. They have thier quirks and a backyard hack that's tossed a couple SBC's together (and got lucky and who now calls himself and 'engine builder') isn't your best bet when it comes to screwing one of these motors together. They're not inexpensive to build (correctly) either....as you've come to find out. Drop the thread and go look for another builder in/around your area. -Bigchief.
You have bent push rods, water/anti freeze in the oil, wiped out lifters and a worn out cam, an oil filter full of metal particles. I think maybe you had better open up the engine to see what is really wrong. I think that you have some real problems. I'm sorry and I hope that I'm wrong but..... Best wishes for small problems Matt
Sounds to me like you might as well throw it back together and beat the **** out of it. Can't hurt it much more then you already have. Then when it hangs the rod out the side you can blame whatever sounds good in your mind. Save up your money, cause real soon you will be building another engine, this one is already probably near all junk. Maybe you can find someone that is a real engine builder next time around, cause the guy you got now sure isn't one. This engine was doomed from the point where the head bolt got stripped out and went down hill when you didn't break in the cam. Then the screw ups just didn't stop, and it doesn't sound like you think its dead yet, so you want to screw another filter on and finish it off. Ignore the facts, keep plugging away until it locks up, then maybe you might understand its dead. Just so your not going to tag me on this one, pull the engine, maybe you can still save the block and a few other parts, maybe. Gene
Yep anti freeze is so good for the bearings that is why we always did oil samples at work and if one came back with anti freeze the motor was pulled and rebuilt, didn't matter if it was an oil cooler or headgasket or what not if it had freeze in it it was gone. i used to have pics of some of the bearings but they got deleted off my work computer. the babbit was peeling and flaking off like paint!
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