First do a search for 4L80E on this site, you will find may people who say that a 4 speed OD transmission with lockup is a waste of time, costs too much, and won't actually make your car perform any better. Others claim all you need is a TH400 with a "stall" (normally they don't give any details on the "stall") I disagree based on the following: 1. Cost: 4L80E transmissions have flooded into craigslist/ebay/junk yards over the last 24 months. The early 4L80E transmissions are now 15 years old, and lots of them have been taken out of service. A good rebuildable unit with stock converter can be found for under $400 2. Rebuild kit cost: nothing special, the guts are almost all shared with the TH400, and a new clutch for the converter is less than $150 installed. 3. Size/weight: This argument is total B.S. Put one beside a TH400: it is only about 4" longer in the tail housing area, if a TH400 fits, an older 4l80E will fit (the new ones are more expensive, and have a cooler fitting in the rear that is more difficult to work around). 4. Computer controls: NOT REQUIRED. Istall the cheap transgo-3 kit, or several other brands for a little more $ and you get full manual control in any gear @ any RPM. Total cost to delete the computer is less than $300 5. Track Performance: Same as a TH400. 6. Street Performance: No comparison to a TH400 if you plan on driving more than 10 miles with a 3000+ stall speed Lots of old timers will dispute #6, saying that they drive their TH400 all day long at 70 mph with 4.56 gears and a 4000 stall. Great, with a 28" tall tire and 4.56 gears you are running over 4000 rpm @ 70 mph. Some will respond that nobody runs 4.56 gears, everyone has 3.50 gears... Even with 3.50 gears the TH400 runs 3100 rpm @ 70 mph... but if you have a "stall" then you will still have slip at 70 mph with 3.50 gears. The converter will generate heat and the engine rpm will be a few hundred rpm higher. Compare the 4L80E for a car that actual gets driven on the street & highway: You can have a 4500 stall & 4.56 gears for great 60' times at the track You can run 70 mph @ 2900 rpm with 28" tires (converter locked) Unlike the 700R4, the 4L80E can hold full throttle in 4th gear allowing you to run over 150 mph with 4.56 gears at 6500 rpm with 28" tires (make sure you have a very good drive-shaft for this speed) Down sides? It still isn't as cool as running a liberty, jerico or doug nash crash box, but is much easier for my wife to drive, and doesn't require much effort to maintain. For anyone who says these transmissions won't work at the track, hear are the first two p***es with 3.50 gears and used 28x10.5x15 slicks. Modified stock converter (3000 rpm stall) in a 3800 pound car.
Cost is still relatively high though overall; I find a TH 350 built 'Tough' with a proper torque converter, 3.55:1 rear gears and 31" tall tires a much more cost efficient way to do the same thing,..only my car weighs substancially less,..but it still has great 'Track-Manners',..excellent Highway drivability and RPM. and with the taller tires, decient mileage, without going high on the rpms. Smaller diameter slicks at the race tracks provide the higher 'Launch' rpms (28") for low ET's.
Huh. I posed a question here a week or so ago about using a manual valve body for my '93 4L60E, and was advised to get a 700R4. I have the 4L60E, it's useable as is, I want to swap the TBI for a carb to get rid of the ugly wiring harness. I don't see why, and didn't then, why using the full manual valve body wouldn't work for my project, a '47 Diamond T one ton pickup being built as our RV hauler truck. 4:10 Dana 70 rear, 350 Chev from a van and the 4L60E.
$350, come get it. I'll even include the GM reman tag. This piece of high quality transmission continues to consume my floor space despite everyone talking about how awesome they are.
I don't agree with the high stall and OD trans comment. The trans will be nowhere near lockup and slipping at highway speeds. Slippage generates heat. It'll do fair on flat ground, but start up a long grade - 12 miles @ 6% locally - and your trans will be running hot.
C9- I have a 700R4 with a 3000 stall and a lock up convertor. When I flip the switch in 4th it locks up and doesn't slip at highway speeds. 2200 rpm etc. Matter of fact it'll about kill the engine if you leave it locked and come to a stop before it takes itself out of 4th. What don't you agree with? If it's locked up it isn't slipping and generating heat right?
I believe they do, but more than likely a 4000 rpm stall converter doesn't have the capability to lock up electrically.
Subscribed. My dually tow rig (454 TBI, TH400, 4:10 gear) starts hollerin' for another gear about 60 - 70mph. An overdrive might help the gas mileage too. You guys go ahead and argue about this for a while. I'll sit back and take notes and try to larn me something.
aight, just so i can go take a looksee at one up close an personal like at the boneyard... what vehicles had these "miracle OD" trans? the idea of an "afordable" (under a grand) OD that might be able to live behind the 455 buick in the willys makes me kinda... smile.
yeah I can't speak to the higher stalls, but I think they make them. When you lock it up it in 4th it drops the rpms a few hundred rpm an you can tell its locked up when you let off the gas and get back on it. Might take a stroll on Summit and see what kind stalls are available in lock up version. They are more expensive, I can tell you that.
it will hold up behind a 455.... at the junkyard i worked at we sold one out of a 95 chevy 1-ton, dually, 4wd, 4 door, full bed, the works, and it had a turbo diesel, sold it for like 150 bucks, and it was in working condition, engine had fuel management problems. idk if it'd survive 1000 horse's, but most of us dont have that and will never have that so whats it really matter?
Fiddy, I think most of the 1/2 ton Chevys and the Suburbans had them. My '01 Suburban has one, but of course it has a transfer case behind it.
just got back from a 2300 mile trip in my heavy 55....blown big block, TH400 with 3000 stall switch pitch, and 3.25 gears. I'd like to drive a bit faster than 65-70, but I like the get up and go with that rearend gear so I don't really want to go back to the 3.00 or 2.75. I love the converter, it's essentially a lockup 3000 stall converter, big difference betwen high and low stall. I've run high 11s with drag radials with this setup. Question...what does it take to make a 4L80E behave like a nice old TH400 when you leave it in drive, but like a drag trans when you pull the shifter back and run it thru the gears? With the blower, it seems natural to use both a tps and a map sensor and you could tune it to shift just exactly like you want it to...if you were to take the time to program a controller for it.... I spent about $700 when I did my trans five years ago: core trans, converter, high quality box kit. I had the SP pump and stuff and a good intermediate sprag and drum already, and I use a home brew shift kit.
Higher stall 4L80E lockup converters are readily available, but they're definitely not cheap. Here's a link to the Yank Performance Converters site, their good 4L80E converters cost close to a grand, the highest stall lockup I can see offered for the 4L80E is 3600:http://www.converter.cc/converters/truck/index.html If the idea of spending 2 grand on a 4L80E with no electronic controls and high-stall lockup converter doesn't sit well with you (and I seriously doubt you could build a good one for that cheap) I'd say stick with the TH400. A good pro-built electronically controlled 4L80E will set you back 5K plus another 1K for the controller.
A built 4l80e will take a lot of punishment. A built 4l60e will also but it's certainly more complicated than building a 350. Both are IMO good road transmissions. If anyone knows where to get either done cheaply, it's a new one on me.
If you put a lot of milage on your car, having a heavy car or high power car and you want a good trans, go with the 4l80e. Just a opinion. Wander
I have about $2700 in my 4l80e setup and have yet started to buy rebuild parts. That does include the compushift computer and harness, a 2800 lock-up stall with carbon fiber diesel truck lock-up clutches, and the coolest part about a 4l80e.....paddle shifters!!!! All going in a 53 pickup.
You might check here, definately not cheap but as a buddy has a tendency to say, "It costs to be boss!" Larry T http://www.phoenixtrans.com/html/gmtrans.html
I get about 11 with the 3.25 gears and about 12 with the 2.75s on the road. less in town of course. If I ran an 80% od with mid 3s gears I would only gain a little bit of mileage.
that's cool I was just wondering what a blown big block would get on the highway. That's pretty good - I had a 402 BB in a 2 wheel drive blazer with 3.08's that never did better than 10 mpg anywhere. I shoulda put a blower on it.
Before I got the 55, I had the same engine in my 59 pickup, it got about 6 in town and 9 on the road with 3.54 gears.
4L60 and 4L80 work like any other transmission. These are what are behind Camaro, Firebird and to a certain extent the Corvette. These have aftermarket internals available along with shifters and converters. Both transmissions are available with or without electronic controls.
Tudor is right, that is the whole idea behind a lock up converter. To eliminate the converter slip at highway speeds. A 700 ,200-4R, 4L60e and a 4L80e if these transmissions don't lock the converter up they will burn up. All four use nylon thrush washers in place of bearings, they can not deal with the heat a converter makes, that's why they lockup.
I installed a "bionic 80" from p.a.t.c. a while back with the fancy compushift box. wow. the overall installation is exactly the same as 400 (as mentioned) and it was pretty damn pricey. (keep in mind that this is a fancypants transmission.) did You know You can paddle shift these? the converter was expensive, but did You know You can fine tune engagement clutch timing to effectively alter Your stall speed? with all of the info avalible from the transmission, there is alot You can use to fine tune. it's like having a ch***is dyno attached to the car. and You can set shift points, shift pressure and shift speed from inside the cab. by pressing a ****on. I am still impressed by this transmission. fairly well rocked my socks off, honestly. my only issues were as follows- #1- there ain't **** for performance shifters avalible. #2.- they are a little large. but no worse than a 6 speed.
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