I am really thinking of V8ing my roadster this upcoming winter. I have an orriginal 32 K member and pedals, a 221 V8 and 39 tranny. I have read the Bishop/Tardel book over and over and it looks pretty strait forward. What I want to know is, when I put the K-member in (going off of the Bishop/Tardel measurments), will I need to shotren/modify the rear torque tube/driveshaft? I plan on using the stock A rear. Looking t pictures it looks pretty damn close. I am just trying to figure out everything that I will need to do to decide when to do this task. Any other tricks/tips of V8ing an A would be greatly appriciated. Thanks, Chris
I am not totally sure, but I know that A Chopped Coupe here sent me an article that was from the December 1951 Hot Rod Magazine where they went into quite a lot of detail and putting a flathead V8 into a stock Model A and they even used the stock trans (I think) and stock driveline without cutting it. You might send A Chopped Coupe a PM and get the article.
My friend JIMSIG on here put a flathad in his Model A.It has all the stock crossmembers and he didn't have to cut any.
Chris, I made a 1/2 to 5/8 or so ring spacer to go in between the mount and the u joint clamshell thingy, and also added some length to the four special bolts that hold the unit together. With the engine, trans, and mount together with spacer, put the whole unit in with the k member left loose in the frame rails. Bolt it all up and this is where you will be. there may be a tiny bit of a f-wall clearance issue still, but that would be up to you on how you would want to address it. I simply move the body back a little bit, but some people bok at it..
chris, here is a pic of the spacer, I think i got the idea from loudpedal but i dont remember. I didnt want to go too thick, leaving enough driveshaft in the u joint. this is all into a v8transplanted banger powered roadster.
I would mock it all up. If you build a lincoln style breather you should be fine with firewall clearence.
If It was me I'd give Bruce a call. He'd know for sure but I think you have to shorten the torque tube and driveshaft. I don't build that kind of thing myself 'cause I can never remember which of the old parts fit together correctly. This sounds like you're going way beyond the typical Chris build where you only need a screw driver and a crescent wrench.....Great idea!
HotRodMickey- Where can I buy one of those lincoln breathers? Im still drving mine without one! Chris-Good luck with this project. I cut just under 24 inches out of my 41 merc rear! I also stretched the frame a bit to make it fit right. That 221 should fit really nice in that engine bay.
Chris.... do a search for Gashog's threads. He's done exactly that and hes documented lots of it, with pics.
Swap meets??? It's a used part..... I modified a Ford one... I think Gashog did the same .... I got the Idea here from the HAMB thru Bruce....probably 100 years ago..
The book I believe uses a longer than stock torque tube. There are 2 ways to go with the '32 crossmember I think...mount crossmember to fit '32 wishbone, use longer TT...or mount crossmember to fit rear. I think I would prefer the latter...difference is not big...but consider with all '32 parts in middle, you could cut the floor of the K member that holds the wishbone cup and reweld it moved slightly...or with a different wishbone (ALL options are cheaper than '32!) make a new floor for the K member to suit. Two things...if fabbing a new place for wishbone, 2 stock caps give you the main bit...AND once the basic structure is built, that socket can be left temporarily floating, held by vise grips or bolts, until car is nearly finished and at full weight...then you can set caster by the height at which you weld the socket in place! Spacer...U-joint must be solidly bolted to trans output, AND must be concentric with the clam shell pivot! So if you space the clam, you must make a spacer where Ujoint bolts to output to move it back, AND add a ring to front of U joint same thickness so U-joint does its job of securing the rear trans bearing. You cannot skip any of this stuff or you will have several different trouble mechanisms going on in there.
I have collected 4 or 5 1950's magazine articles on A V8 building...I think all assume stock A rear or of course V8 rear cut to same length. 1954 HRM detailed build of Neumeister roadster (recently featured in RJ...it survived!) 1951 Don Francisco article, general info, multiple options Speed Mechanics 11-1953...fairly detailed build called drag roadster, but is actually a basic A V8 streerod Hop Up 11-53 also, California Bill article...more detail on the same info he put in his book...which I think has been reprinted recently
THANK YOU EVERYONE for the input thus far. Bruce, your idea on mounting the K member to fit the rear sounds the best, and altering the K member floor sound spretty strait forward if I have to. The wishobone I have is actually a 33/34 that has been lengthened to fir a 32. So I could also just modify the wishbone (lengthen) to fit the K member...wouldn't feel so bad on butchering up an already bitechered one
Flathead crazyness. Your a mad man. Couldn't you slide the engine back .5" to make up for the difference? Isn't there a bit of room from back of engine to firewall or no?
Yeah, I'm thinking that is the way I'll go. I'm pretty sure that the breather/fuel pump stand will interfear with the firewall, but I can work around that.
Chris, I just couldn't bring myself to cut up the Kmember I have so I went with an F-1 crossmember & I am realy glad I did. It is alot easier to modify & the pedals work perfectly as well. I am using a 37 rear end so I do have to cut my torque tube. Now I have a complete kmember & deuce pedals for when I find a set of deuce rails for my next project.
Chris you can use the entire 33/34 "K"-member and wishbone and boy does it stiffen that old "A" frame up and if you measure correctly you can get that V8 in without cutting the firewall
Chris, you have just made many of us so proud of you with your decision to go AV8. There are so many different ways to skin this cat that there really isn't a wrong way. I like Bruce L's idea as it sounds to be the least amount of hassle. Are you coming over for the Centralia Swap meet next month, or possibly fall Monoe? It's just a few miles from Red's shop where we are building my T Sedan. Terry
You can use a stock A rear diff with a 32 wishbone BUT you need to take a tiny bit out of the firewall to get the engine back far enough, and one cylinder head nut on the right will not come off with the engine in the car, AND most importantly for a tall guy such as yourself the clutch/brake pedals will be right under your knees. 33/34 wishbone works well and gets the engine sitting in a better position BUT you will need to cut and lengthen it a hair. Also the gear box will not meet the stock A torque tube so a longer driveshaft/torque tube comes into play which means you need to change the whole diff to a later model.
Oh man... can O' worms! You know, with every action, there is a reaction. Touch one thing, everything changes... If you trying to do this and not take a year, get yourself a 32 frame, bet you got a couple, ha! Be easier to throw the 21 in it, stock 32 rear, modify the roadster floor if you wanna use that 21. Whats up with the banger? Hop that motor up, it will go faster then the 21 I bet. I think if your gonna throw a V8 in a car, go with a better rear as well. Or the 34 stuff is a better up grade from the 32 and A. You know all this! Whats wrong with us...never happy unless everything is apart! Worst thing on an early hop up.... hacked up firewall! You've got class though... you would make it look nice I'm sure... if you had too.
Man, I hate cutting up K members and F-1's for A frames... so much to be trimmed off. I's opt for the K over the F-1 in your application though of course. F-1's were almost ment to go in 32 chassis with T-5's, they look so clean and natural. I've got three projects at the top of my list right now. All close to what your up too. 32 frame, 36 rear, torque, and shaft. Just finished trimming to fit, waiting on roll pin for shaft, and an ass gasket, reassemble. This project has the A banger, Miller Schofield, and 39 trans. Then, on the frame table, got a boxed A chassis, F-1 crossmember, 24 stud, and t-5. 39 rear. Last but not least, throwing my 29 Phaeton body on my 32 chassis with 24 stud, t-5, 39 rear. Chassis is all together, runs like a raped ape. Now for trying to squeeze this little but longer body onto the 32. May have to trim firewall at the bottom of firewall, I hate it, but I'll make her look good. Plus I'll be running a hood. Hope to see you out in Spokan if I design that joint... Keep us posted with pics, love what ya do!
The setback to Model A tube was used on all the "written up" A -V8 articles I have stashed away from 1950's articles...trimming or bending firewall lip was sure not a big deal then. On the pedals...normal '32 conversion with MC mounted way low was not all the great anyhow...see the Kaz solution on here...but if you have to hack up the K member legs anyway, re-do it better. Build a new leg for '39 or '40-48 pedals (these need some extra hardware for clutch), set them forward until back to proper A position, get a longer pushrod and mount MC to back wall of the crossmember behind where it would have bracketed directly to pedals. Much shorter arm, raises MC to safer and stronger position Pedal and wheel stuff can't go far from stock in an A, since the parts are fitted into such a limited space '32 engine radius rods can be fabricated to fit, then engine is leveled in frony by aligning ratchet nut with the handcrank bearing on front crossmember
Hey Chris, Just thought I would chime in on this...My Dad is building an AV8 almost excactly like the BT Roadster Outa the book. I cant remember all the details cause we did it like 3-4 years ago, but we used a later Flat-8 then you and had to add 4 inches to the frame to fit it..then we modified the 32 K-Member as described In the book...They expain that well...I dont know about how the model A rear end would fit, but we used a 37 Torque-tube and had to shorten it. Heres a pic of the k-member, couldnt get the rest to load, theres som pics on my profile....Not sure if this helps any... Your Roadster pics from the weekend Have inspired my Dad to get back to work on this thing.
I did (Well, Zach Suhr did the work) exactly the same thing. That K member doesn't just plop into an A frame. There is some surgery that needs to be done. By using an F-1 mount, you have control over the pedal placement. One area you'll need to fab or think about is how to mount the pad for the wishbone ball mount. My '40 rear did need to be shortened. Can't speak for a the A. It may not since the F-1 mount wound up being placed very close to where the stock one was.
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