Depends on the trans. My Tremec is putting up with it on occasion. Older Toyota trucks shift real nice like that if you're good with the throttle
It,s all in how ya do it, if your gonna bang em your gonna break it, if your gentle you wont. GET A ROCK CRUSHER!!
I learned to drive in my dad's '47 Ford 3-ton truck with a unsyncronized 4- speed and shifting without the clutch was the suggested way. Then I shifted my Muncie (66 Impala w/283 - Muncie replaced 3-speed when shift linkage broke) without a clutch and friend (who thought he was pretty good driver) 'bout dropped his jaw out the window Big trucks do it all the time ('59 IH required it) If you shift at the point where everything is at the same speed and there's no clashing there's no problem. If you're forceing it and there's a jerk/grind/clash/etc then there's a problem (or will be) And a lot depends on the engine/****** combination. Be careful, be smooth or be ready to rebuild
if you are good enough to hit the moment of synchronization, then enjoy. I grew up driving big trucks, so it is common for me to shift without the clutch. Most big trucks do that routinely. Enjoy your Roadranger
If you are smooth - which means working the gas to there is no accelerative or deccelerative thrust on the ******, and you match the revs right - it is smooth as silk and with no grinding. I once had a Willys 6 pickup with no brakes. I would drive it without using the clutch. Upshift and downshift. Also, the truck had no brakes. Nada. I drove it around like that for years. Used it to trailer my boat. I would downshift to slow down and at the right moment switch off the ignition., I got so good I could sneak up 6 inches on the car stopped at the light in front of me. Would back the trailer down the boat ramp and kill the ignition to stop. Never put the truck in the water. Never had a problem. Finally sold the truck, still with no brakes. Ah, youth. I mean 'yout'.
Thats how I drove my NP435 in my '65 F250 4X4. I could drive across town upshifting and downshifting and not touch the clutch unless I needed to come to a complete stop. You have to get the rpms to match the gear you are going in up or down, and coax it, not force it. It should never grind. I would gear down to 2nd with 4.56 gears and be almost at a stop idling, and do a "California" stop at a four way. If I got it into granny (floated in, because theres no synchro) you would swear it was stopped. 10 years and counting, no trouble. But I run synthetic Mobiltrans SHC50, same viscosity as 50wt engine oil/ 90wt gear lube, but no sulphur like a GL spec usually has. If you get the revs right, you can powershift it pretty forcefully, If I push 7000 rpms, I shift and drop the rpms to the spread and it almost ****s it into gear. It takes practice though, I drove an 18-wheeler for awhile.
If you can change gears with out hearing, or feeling it I don't think you are damaging it, might even save a little ware on the throw out bearing!
Like everyone else is saying its all in how you do it.I have pulled it off in everything from a 81 VW Rabbit pickup (if you can call it a pickup) ,to an un syncrod 3 on the tree, to split shifting without a clutch in 1977 F700 2 and half ton (just to see if it could be done along time ago).If you dont hear it grind and you work the throttle right ,you wont hear anything,it wont hurt anything and it will drop right in gear easy.The ones that will tell you it hurts it are usually the ones who cant do it correctly ...
my 34 p/u with the gm saginaw 3 speed shifts awsome without the clutch, i taught JEn how to do it in her 65 el camino with a m21, i even did it a couple of times in my new 46 ford with the stock trans. now my last winter beater 94 ranger 5 speed, no way, had to use the clutch. JEFF
reason i bring it up, is an old BMW i've been driving. i've shifted all sorts of cars without the clutch, but it really required hitting it just right. i drove a lumber truck with a split ****** that required it, and was tough to do it too. but, this BMW.... it's a Getrag 5 speed dogleg. i swear the car loves it. i can shift into any gear with the throttle no problem and no noise. i can shift 1-3-5 and back down. i can roll stops and never use the clutch. ****** pretty much ****s it in as throttle is feathered.
Be careful with that ranger Jeff, them things LOVE to eat up 3rd gear synchros and eventually the case just gives out and one of the gear shafts will drop and all hell breaks loose...had one that grenaded completely, one that stuck in 5th and wouldn't come out (try getting back home through 3 stoplights in 5th without smoking a clutch, hahaha), and the last one lunched 3rd and 5th, but still drove an hour home...
This old guy I worked for always talked about shifting without using the clutch and I thought he was nuts,so the next place I worked for had a chevette for a shop car and I tried it and it actually worked and got good at it and hardly used the clutch. 20 years later I tried it again on a couple different vehicles with limited success,my 37 chevy p/u had a bad syncronizer so it was easier to not use the clutch untill I did something wrong and broke second gear.
Geez, sometimes it's a necessity. While going to Lake Mead Neveda I lost my slave cylinder going into Henderson. Going through traffic wasn't so bad but timing the signals was. When I had to stop I was lucky enough to have been driving a 58 1 1/2 ton Ford flat bed. Granny gear was low enough to stop at a signal, kill the engine then start it in gear. drove it all the way to Overton landing at the lake NO PROBLEM I learned how to drive without a clutch,,,just ease it in if you know what I mean
I don't know nuthin' bout BMW's or Getrags, but it might have shift clutches like a motorcycle trans rather than synchronizers. FI race trans. are like that. If you try to push it into a gear with the engine running, the clutch pedal out, and the car sitting still, what happens?
I started driving semi trucks (illegally) when I was 16, I have always been kind of gifted when it comes to shifting gears without the clutch. For me this has carried over to most any vehicle, but the PROBLEM is that when other folks watched me do this in light trucks and cars they thought THEY could do it too, even though their thoughts about what was going on was limited to moving the stick from here to there. NOT COOL when I was the one paying the ****** and rear end repair bills. So, I learned to JUST USE THE DAMN CLUTCH in anything that has synchros, never know who might be watching...
It's all about the float and the feel. Learn to float the throttle to allow the RPMs stabilize and drop ever so slightly while holding light pressure on the shifter against the gate for the gear you're trying to drop into. As soon as you "feel" it, move the shifter smoothly, firmly (forcibly even), and completely into that gear. At least as a green pea (rank beginner), trying to "hurry the shift" will get you in trouble, as will trying to "find the gear" by raising the RPMs instead of letting them "drop" slowly. If you've never done it (or if you've never gotten REAL good at it), you need to start out on a rig where the throttle is smooth and progressive and the shifter is not overly notchy. This is also one of those instances where it's all about the smoothness and speed is not a virtue. A sliding gear (crash) box is easiest to learn with without creating undo damage, but it can be learned with a modern syncro box also. Just be prepared to pull it down and replace clutch keys and springs when you break them, along with the occasional br*** ring. If you are hamb fisted or the transmission is weak, more certain and serious damage is sure to result. Quite frankly, if the clutch engages and disengages properly with a modern syncro gear box, once you learn the technique in case the clutch SHOULD ever fail, there's nothing more to be gained and a gearbox to loose should you screw a shift up. At the very least, you'll probably wear the syncros out prematurely. It might be more advantageous to work on your coordination for proper double clutching technique instead.
I know this is old, but I have to say something about this. A synchronized transmission being shifted without the clutch will cause prematured wear on the synchronizers because they are designed to bring the mainshaft and gear being chosen to a matching speed for smooth engagement. A nonsynchronined transmission like a Roadranger big truck transmission doesn't have synchronizers on the mainshaft. That's why guys doubleclutch or float in the gears by listening to engine rpm or watching the tach and speedo, knowing what gear/mph/rpm combo is correct. The gears and sliders in these transmissions will wear out because of driver inexperience or abuse, and then from normal wear. When that happens, let's say the truck starts to jump out of gear in 5th and 10th. Repairs? Complete dis***embly of the trans and parts replacement. Recently, the shop I work at had a medium duty truck from a local building supplier torn down. The facing on first/second gear synchro was worn out because the driver was shifting without using the clutch. Fuller denied warranty on the synchro parts because it was cl***ified as driver abuse failure. I realize all of these desciptions involve larger than hotrod transmissions, but the results are the same. How many transmission repairs can you afford?
the bigger truck ******s have more gear facing to bump and ride before the teeth engage...works just like a synchro and if your not pushing hard, your not breaking the suface tension of the grease so the gears never actually meet. The rpm drop on a big diesel is less in a moment than with a gas engine so it's easier on a big truck. clutching only at stops and starts I drove one rig up to 870,000 miles and my mack with the original clutch and brake linings to 979,000 miles with no change in ****** play or shift wear. granted it needed brakes and was on the last clutch adjustment by then. a clutch job is around 3k and my drivetrain was good for another million miles at least. I remember an article about race prepping ******s for speed shifting. I think this might be the same as setting one up for clutchless shifting. what they did was to remover every other dog tooth from the synchros and every other channel from the inside of the shifting collar and chamfering the edge of the remaining ones. they did something else I think welding tooth extensions or hardened teeth to the dog ring. I am ***uming it was to give more time for the shift to get in place at high rpm or to loosen up the synchro to get it in easier but either way it would have increased decelleration backlash
I drove a 62 Dodge pu for 6-7 years used the clutch for first gear only most of the time never changed the clutch or trany
On a fuller 10 speed you can repair fifth and tenth without completely taking it apart. You remove trans from truck remove inpuit shaft and top shifter cover the slider can then be removed and replaced. If the gear is worn take off the tail housing pull out the alighnment quill and slide back the outpuit shaft enough to pop the gear up. Start the new gear in and turn both counter gears at the same time. be shure to check for proper gear timing. The Peterbuilt i drive has a million and a half miles hardly ever been clutched still has the original clutch trans never been touched. When floating gears reduce RPM on the upshift Increase RPM to downshift. I hardly ever clutch any stick vehicle that i drive. A well worn trans is easier to float the gears than a new one. I guess it all boils down to how skilled you are as to whether it causes damage. The new automatic semis actually still use a gear type trans a computer does all of the shifting clutching and throttle manipulation. Any body can drive and shift them perfect. OldWolf
http://www.inforanger.roadranger.com/epc/index.asp?modelID=263&groupID=366 I will just show info I work with, no arguement. Much respect to Old wolf. Y'all can search this if you feel the need. The bottom line of what I read and tryed to p*** info about is from what I've seen for 20 years. Case in point, customer brings back in a clutch pressure plate that has been exploded with the disc parts with it to. Why did it happen? A synchro acts as a brake or accelorator for the chosen gear, and resulting change while the clutch pedal is depressed. If it's not used correctly, stuff happens. In this case, the driver popped the truck ****** out of 4th, high gear while coasting and braking to a stop sign. During that action, he selected 1st, granny as the truck was still rolling at maybe 30 mph. The synchroniizer did it's job to make the transmission mainshaft speed, countershaft, and clutch/input shaft rpm all match together, which made the clutch disc overspeed and ****ter, trashing the pressure plate and belhousing of a loaded truck. I was taught by guys with scars about this stuff. Synchonizers and more parts wear or break because of lack of care or experience. Back to what I said about the lumber company truck, synchro'ed transmissions aren't built to be shifted without the clutch consistently. I enjoy to be able to throttle shift vehicles, don't make it less harmful though. Again, no disrespect intended whatsoever.
The Jalopy Journal
