What's your criteria for picking a machine shop/engine builder? And in what order? Modern equipment? Cleanliness? Low cost? Owner's at***ude? Reputation? I need to have my 354 Hemi gone thru and have several options. Thanks in advance.
The older the machines the better , and neatness ( to a degree ) I actually got lucky and found a local guy in the phone book.. Works out of his garage talked with him prior to going over and he answered my questions,,and said 'yes' that what I wanted could be done,,BUT also said if you wanna do this or that with this thing,, I would suggest you look at other options.. So for me that right there,,he's thinking ahead which to me is the sign of a good craftsman Also got hooked up with other through this guy,,as something he said he's not set up for but ,,he knows someone who is.. Have now got several people that kinda specialize in different parts of the same field and have been very pleased with the work
One way is to bring in something simple, in perfect shape, and ask what he/she thinks. If they say gee kid you maybe should have checked the points or carb before you took it apart you're in good hands.
I would think with an older motor ,,,I would find the oldest shop around,,,one that knew them better then a newer shop,,just my .02
yea agree with window all of them plus make sure he has experience with the engine your taking him if it something that yo dont see everyday like the hemi your talking about
reputation! word of mouth from friends has never failed me. you can even ask the shop for some references. they will understand if your about to spend alot of money.
Word of mouth/reputation is key. Older equipment might mean they have been at it a long time and know what they're doing-or it might mean they're close to retiring,don't want to upgrade and don't really care that their old equipment means "worn out" and their tolerances are no longer accurate.
Ask around, find out what happened when guys had problems...the the shop step up and fix the problem or leave them high and dry?
No finite answers, it would depend on the situation. In this case, I would first ask if they had done one of these engines; or one similiar, and then ask for customer names. I would then talk to a couple of customers and ask lots of questions. In the event no local shop had experience with this engine; I would consider shipping to another location. If this isn't possible then: (1) owners at***ude (2) age of machines and machinests (the older the better)! (3) cleaniness of PARTS (not the shop itself). If the floor and tables are so clean one can eat on them, I am out of there quickly! And expanding item (2) above: I don't mind seeing one or two newer machines, and a couple of machinests under 50; but I want to see some "grizzled veterans" as well. JOn.
well word of mouth is not always accurate but it is a factor. everybody kept telling me to take my stuff to this shop so after i talked to the guy for a little bit i did then the f**ker cost me a lot of money then i hear from all the other people that i wished i heard from before i took my stuff to him i even heard from an ex employee who told me some horror storys bout that shop all after the fact
Knowledge/experience with the engine. Reputation. Equipment. (Older doesn't necessarily mean better; there is some nice stuff available now that's more accurate than anything of old.)
it's hard to pick a good one for sure. I had 3 motors built by this one shop. as well as some heads and other stuff. the third motor had lost a bearing due to no oil after having been rebuilt a few months before by this shop. (I did the R&R) totally the car owners fault. brought the shortblock back to be redone and he ***embled it. I was going to put the tin on and reinstall... when he was done he suggested I bring the oil pan over and he'd put it in the parts washer. well his ***istant didn't listen and I guess just wiped it out with a paper towel or something and left a bunch of bearing parts under the baffle. I used the wrong pan gasket (woops!) and when I went to replace it after driving it a bit I saw all the bearing chunks. he took no responsibility for it and acted like he was doing me a big favor when he replaced the bearings. told me the metal came from the heads which he never touched. someone tell me how a big chunk of bearing gets through the oil pump and filter up to the heads and falls back to the pan. so I had to R&R the motor twice. second time for free... couldn't charge the customer for the machine shops mistake. I'll never use him again.
I took a set of 312-y block heads to a "reputable"guy. He asked why I wanted them done. Then he just takes two valves out and measures spring tension, checks surface to seat with indigo Puts it back together and says surface em and run em. $40 to surface both heads and He was my guy till I moved away.
Modern equipment? - the oldest works the best Cleanliness? dirty shops many times do the best work Low cost? ya get what ya pay for Owner's at***ude? if he is an ***hole and still in buisiness then there is a reason Reputation? THAT IS IT
Talk to your machinist, it usually becomes clear whether or not they are ********ting you pretty quickly. My machinest is only about 30 years old but was apprenticed under an older gentleman for 12 years at the local machine shop. Its usually a good sign if you tell em your building a flatty and they get a big **** eating grin as well.
Ask guys who win local races where they get their stuff done. In SoCal, it was easy. Lots of great shops and lots of world record holders and world champions. You don't get that stuff for ****py work. I was fortunate enough to work for a few of them. Here in the boonies (relatively speaking) it was a bit tougher, but there's still races being won and records being set. All the fast guys go to the same 2 or 3 shops. Finding the best machine shops is best accomplished at the race track, not at the local cruise night...
You wouldn't have asked the question if you have much experience working with machinests. If you have never taken a motor/head/crankshaft to a machinest, get a friend that has had work done go along. I take my work to a one-man-shop. Will never take work to a place where there is a "service manager" that talks to the customer and don't allow me in to see the work being done. If you don't agree with that, read no further................ Look around the shop. You can't tell by orderly appearance, because my favorite machinest has work backed up, completed work stacked up, heads and components lined up, crankshaft grinding going on, etc. all the time. When I walk in, if he's grinding a crankshaft, he puts the machine in idle and greets me. Chip piles might look bad to the novice, but a good machinest will keep the chips out of the mechanism of his machine, and the floor where he stands will be relatively clear. If it's a one man shop, (most EXCELLENT machine shops are) his work table will appear cluttered with tools, to the average person, but the guy knows where he used a specific tool last. I'll use a valve job as an example; Tell the potential candidate to do your work that you want to know a little bit about his work before you leave your valuable component with him. Tell him what you need done, then listen. He should inform you a ballpark completion date(without you asking), a gestimate of the cost, (without you asking). A valve job on a head is usually determined by how many valves there are. He should be able to quote off the top of his head how much the labor on a standard valve job on a chivvy six, for instance, is. He should ask you if you want all new guides or if you want them checked first. If you want all new ones, there's no point of him checking them, he should be aware of that fact and not ***ume that everybody wants all new valves and valve guides on a valve job. The guy I use has a standard procedure where he removes all the hardware, valves, and springs, puts the head in the cleaner and then after a cursory look, calls me and lets me know what parts that he thinks that I need. I don't need to ask 'how much'? because I already know. Some shops don't save the old parts unless you tell them up front you want them. Tell him, for your education and piece of mind, that you want to look at the valve seats and valves before he does them. Some people want all new valves, some want to grind the old ones if they are otherwise serviceable. Like I said, tell him what you want and if he tries to sell you additional labor up front, I would straighten him out on whose car we are working on, that you'll decide that, and it's his job to deliver what you decide on him doing. Some of these guys have never worked on a motor in their life, except doing the machine work on components. Every one of them will tell you you need all new steel valve seats on an older head where the seats were cut into the cast iron. I don't buy that story and a simple "********", puts that subject to rest. My advice would be, until you have been convinced the old seats are so far gone that resurfacing them is impossible, where an insert seat repair is in order, to resist that old wive's tale.
I've done the machine shop run around. Unfortunately for me, the one shop that I did trust closed down. We have several other shops that I have had do some work for me, and I've severely been let down. These disappointments have cost lots of money too... One group of friends have resorted to a 200mile trip to get their machining done. They're shuffling parts back and forth at least once a month, blocks, heads, cranks... sometimes you need to go to extremes to find a good place. Me, I'm still searching...
Gary, Jim at Central Virginia Machine. He is going to do my 331 hemi. We are going to use pontiac rods in the motor. should be fun. Helps that it will have 4 strombergs worked by the ****ster. SF Dave http://www.centralvirginiamachine.com/
All of the items are a good start, but I want someone who will LISTEN to me ,instead of them telling me what I want. I don't mind their advice but some think their way is the only way. And if they say Monday the 12th ,I expect to pick it up Monday the 12th.
Two things to avoid- old buggars with the "we'll punch her .030 and cut the crank 10/10 and put in seats" before they ever look at it Used to make sense when blocks 'n such were plentiful, but with a rare block, minimal creative oversizes are your friend. And the old gotta put in seats for unleaded myth has cost a lot of folks a lot of cash. Plus every over/undersize decreases the value of your parts- standard is rare & valuable Second, if you have anything but, avoid the "Chebbie Uber Alles" type, not hard to recognize, and what they "know" about Chebbies can booger your "other" stuff pretty good if they don't have an open mind- see this all the time with FE's, they're just different in some ways, and the biggest complaint from FE guys is that the Chebbie-brainwashed shop wouldn't listen to and work with them, and did it "their way". You only get so many chances with rare parts (sometimes one)- not worth taking a chance Nothing wrong with modern, quality machines, the guy running them is very important- my neighbor bought a CK-10 when they first came out, still has it, and they maintain it very well. Updates like torque plates and brushes to finish the bores with a plateau texture work very well- can't do that with an old Van Norman boring bar
I usually talk to the older guys at the shows and clubs, get a few names and check them out....my favorite shop is basiclly a small building behind an uto parts store a little more then a 3 car garage. Everything is organised, but you wouldn't believe they could get another piece of equipment or another engine in the door....work is 1st rate, they are always backed up and I have actually had to wait in a line to drop off my parts(not good if you are in a hurry, but great if you need proof of quality and customer satisfation)
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