Hey guys bought a flathead a while back. It is my first one. Its a 37 21 stud and I know it was running when pulled about 4-5 years ago. It had a 2 deuce manifold on it and when I took the heads off I noticed that you cant see stock casting number on the block anymore up by the intake manifold (machined off). I did see 040 stamped in and a little star. I checked the bore and it was about 3.135, I think stock should be 3.06? The bore seems closer to the valves than usual. Also noticed it has adjustable lifters in it. I haven't pulled it yet but is that maybe a sign it has a cam? It turns over just fine although there is more sludge than I prefer. (Not much compaired to most I've seen tho.) What are my options for cleaning it out on the engine stand without ripping it apart. I was thinking take the valves, lifters, and cam out, but leave the bottom end in. I ordered a full gasket set from mac's. My immediate concerns are how do I clean it without clogging it up? How would I tune the adjustabl lifters if they are not set right? How much can I take off the heads to bump compression slightly? Also thinking of lightening the flywheel since it weighs more the motor itself, how is this done? I will get pics of it soon, i couldn't last night b/c I was elbow deep in sludge from my buddies flatty.
Adjustables became almost universal long ago when cost of labor for fitting began to exceed cost of lifters...look at nose of cam to see if any cam grinder stampings. Engine can be fairly well cleaned by removing valley baffles and flushing everything downhill from there...thermostats and PCV are the cure for your sludge! I use a big cardboard box, first lined with flat newspapers then filled with wadded ones, under engines getting major cleaning. Have pan tanked...anything else is too ghastly to contemplate. Now, if you are stripping it as far as you say...remove the bearing caps and shells, keeping all in careful order, and remove crank...you can leave pistons alone if not planning any work, just be sure all those caps and floaters get back correctly! Reason for this...cleaning the main oil callery through the tube over cam. Remove plug at each end and cover over pump gears at back, and oil pump. You can now totally clean the p***ages with gun brushes and lots of solvent. If crank stays in, you will be pushing crud from horizontal tube right into the down p***ages... Clean pump, sand end of housing to get end clearance pretty tight. Measure clearance by putting balls of aluminum foil several places across each piston, turn over by hand with heads and gaskets on. Same on valves, one ball at edge toward cylinder, another at top...valves are canted. You want piston clearance at 040, valves a bit less. You may well not be able to get all where you want it, so piston clearance is the critical bit. Any milling that gets gap too tight means re-doming of head, something your local machine shop probably is not set up for.
First of all you need it bolted to a side mounted flatty engine stand (exhaust ports) to minimize breaking the bell off of the block. If you haven't removed valves from a flatty before you need to review the following 3 page link: http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/flathead_valveremoval_tools-1.htm If you need the tools I may be able to loan them to you with a promise of a return and care when you use them. You need to find out what cam is in it before adjusting the lifters as the clearance is usually specified by the cam. Mfg. With the engine upright on a stand and the pan off you should be able to safely use a common degreaser to clean the valley in the block. What numbers are on the heads? Milling them may have all ready been done so I'd be careful with that. You need to CC the chambers to see if they have all ready been milled as well as using the tin foil method Bruce suggested. Some had numbers on the intake deck most did not. Original bore was 3.0625" (3-1/16"). And everything Bruce said! Hope this helps Jim AKA Blown49
Bruce, you are exactly the person I hoped would see my thread. I have heard tales of your knowledge. Thanks for the info. Also thanks to blown49 for the info. Ill tear down a little more and report back what I find.
I also have the flywheel that weighs as much as my honda civic with the real thick raised wall around the outside. From what I've learned I need a 9" clutch and pp? And can I have that wall machined all the way off and then have the flywheel rebalanced?
If you have the "wall" wheel with Long plate INSIDE the all, you have a 1935--194?? 9" wheel. This is the traditional one to modify, by removing the wall entirely and maybe tapering the edge a bit. Use very fine cutting and polish it to prevent grooves that could be stress risers. If you have the pressure plate that bolts TO the top of wall, that is a '32-4 with Model A type clutch stuff.
Tore in and cleaned up further, everything is golden under the oil pan, looks absolutely beautiful. However I took a closer look at the cylinder walls and the the top on one it is pitted but not too far down. Its only at the very top of the wall. Head gasket was kinda messed up in that spot when i took it off. Tryin not to dump more money into this motor since the rest of it looks so good. Do you think I should run it as is?
I think Frank Oddo's "Ford Flathead V-8 Builders Handbook 1932 -1953" is one of the best out there. Also a fellow named JWL on the Fordbarn.com website has a great one. On the subject of turning down the wall on the flywheel to reduce the weight; if the wall has any holes that don't require bolts they may be balance holes. Hope this helps, Jim
I'd use a set of Fel-Pro composite head gaskets when you re-***emble. Install hardened washers under all stud nuts. Coat gaskets with the copper spray and torque at 35#, then 45# then 55# in sequence. Fill with water, start engine, and bring to operating temp. Shut it down and allow to cool (8-10 hours). Re-torque again in sequence to the 55# rate. Repeat this heat/cool/re-torque cycle at least 3 times or until the nuts stop moving. On the subject of turning down the wall on the flywheel to reduce the weight; if the wall has any holes that don't require bolts they may be balance holes. Hope this helps, Jim
Runnit with the pits unless they are big. Carefully scrutinize area where gasket was bad and wall near pits just to be sure there isn't a crack involved in this.
QUOTE: It had a 2 deuce manifold on it and when I took the heads off I noticed that you cant see stock casting number on the block anymore up by the intake manifold (machined off). I did see 040 stamped in and a little star. :QUOTE This wasn't the casting number but rather the VIN number. The engine must have been installed in a Ford sold in a State where the engine was required to be numbered. This was usually done at the dealership and stamped in the block deck between the head and the intake. Oddly sometimes the intake or the head were stamped rather than the block. The five-pointed star, number/letter prefix, a dash (-), the sequence number and another five-pointed star made up the Ford VIN numbers in those days.
Yea, there were no numbers by the star when I looked at it, the only thing stamped on the deck area was the 040, he may remember something else
It looks like you came up with a pretty nifty engine. Thanks for myself and probably a few others at the look at the bracket for the engine stand for the flathead. I have a heavy duty engine stand out here in the back that will become the flathead V8 engine stand due to those photos. Usually Borders, Barnes & Nobel or Hastings depending on which one you go to have flathead books on the shelf. Just study them to see if they have the info you need before buying. I've read and followed Frank Oddo's work since I can't remember and it is usually spot on and easy to understand. <input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><!--Session data--><input onclick="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" type="hidden">
The engine stand works great. We have 3 stands around the shop so we could sacrifice one for this use. My 8BA is on a regular stand since it doesn't have the built in bellhousing. I think we used 1/2" plate for the mounting flange and some 2x3" .125 wall for the legs, it is damn sturdy!
I see adjustables and a late pump...if engine has been together for a few years, it is quite possible both are the good ones! Anything stamped on cam nose?
I'll have him check the nose of the cam tonight, but it does still have the fiber timing gear on it. What do you think about the pitting in the cylinder wall, picture #8. It looks like it would be right where the compression ring would be, it's decently deep, and it is also the cylinder where the head gasket was messed up, perhaps a water leak into that cylinder?
I stopped up at the shop tonight to get a few things and checked out the front of his cam, it has a '5 T' stamped on it.
I got the idea for the engine stand from k.r. wilson, but I didn't have the $500 + to buy one. The exhaust ports sit at 45 degrees from the ground and the engine stands trunk is 5 degrees back so I cut the two pieces of square tubing at 40 degrees so the engine would sit level on the stand. It kinda worked...
Have a brand new set of .040 Aluminum Silv O Lite mfg flat top Aluminum 3 ring pistons with new wrist pins for that 21 stud,if you need them P.M. me.Gerry
I dont know what the 5T on the cam was for, but I remember in the 60s the stock car racers used to be on the lookout for 5T cams. Maybe they have a bit more torque?
Just found this online... http://www.reds-vintage-parts.com/Hot-Rodding-Then-Now/tom-barney.html "...Tom did everything else including the hydraulic brake setup and all of the running gear. Tom built the ’34 mill and had John Bandimere bore it out 1/8”(making it a big 239” engine). The stock 21 stud heads were milled and a Ford 5T cam was used to bump the valves. He used Novi pistons and a McCulloch blower (supercharger). It was a pretty hot mill at that time. He turned 100 mph on his first run on the Buckley Field road that morning. On his second run, he again turned 100 mph, but the rear end decided it had had enough fun and let go during the run. Tom said Roy Leslie, another DTA member, made a phone call the following Monday to a local wrecking yard who had some new ring and pinion rear end gears..."
I have a Fenton 2 deuce manifold for this thing and a bunch of holley 94's that need rebuilt. What should I order to rebuild two of these things for this motor? I've read a little, but honestly I've never worked on a multi-carb set up.
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