We're on the same page here! The only time a Roll Cage or Proper belts aren't better than none is when they are improperly used. BUT a cage in a car without proper belts can actually cause injury due to close proximity to your head. A few extras inches can make a difference. But if it's a roll over and you're crushed it becomes a moot point.
Racing is dangerous. At a track, at least the guy in the other lane is going in the same direction (mostly) and no one is going to pull out in front of you. Street racing is much more deadly because now you are dealing with texting, eating, possibly drunk, unattentive drivers in cars that isolate them from the world around them. And i will venture a guess that at the time of the build, no thought was given to p***enger safty. The bottom line is no roll cage, bar, harness, etc. can protect you all the time. Epspecially if it's not being used as designed. Just my .02. Jay, 1/2 of the black magic crew
I'm not planning on racing with it... but I'll be making my ride a helluva' lot more impact resistant than the way it left the factory in 1929... you've all seen how people drive these days right... if we even dare to actually call it driving anymore??? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=269648 Take away all the bells-n-whistles, safety features, anti-lock, anti-skid, anti-this-anti-that, power steering and brakes, crumple zones, etc., etc., etc. and people might actually have to learn how to drive a dam'n car again. I stopped riding my Scoot in 1997 because I was nearly creamed on a bridge by a woman not paying attention... the dam'n thing is still just sitting in my ba*****t. I was lucky enough to avoid her. Call me what you'd like... but people today are soft and getting dumber every minute.
Not for nothing,,When you street race ,,You could screw up and kill yourself,,or worse someone else Run them over ,,crash into them etc,,all this talk about safety gear is kinda pointless,,Its irresponsible driving so what if your safe in your lil roll cage if you just ran over a 12 year old. If your gonna illegally race ,,most folks go out where no ones around,,and with like minded folks,,also you can't protect yourself against everything.. Look at old accidents most big 50's cars roofs did'nt really collapse,,and if your in a model A well.. Its racing and its a sport where you take the chance of getting messed up,,yes saftey first,,but also race where others will not be affected by your actions The first safety step is to THINK and a car like that shouldn't be on the street
I've found I wack my head quite a bit on my cage, now that I put stock seats back in, when I had kirkeys it kept you up right and the seat pretty much went to the roofline and in front of the cage. Granted the douche that put this cage in place it about 6" to far forward. So eventually I'll cut it out and redo it, but Roll bar pads are great for little bonks but also cramp things up quickly. (hence I don't have them in atm)
Quite a few posts here have made a big deal about the Opel being Street Legal. In my opinion it's a Super Gas drag car, that the fellows decided to take for a little joy ride that went terribly wrong. I built dozens of Opel GT fibergl*** 1-piece front ends and doors over the last 40 years. Did anyone see a door, parts of a door, or a front end in the photos. How about wiring to the headlights on the Street Legal car? What I see in the photos is an out of certification Super Gas car that had terrible seats and no padding on the cage, and a couple guys who made a poor decision. I totally agree with the folks have said, it's about the decision to do something irresponsible by a man who is old enough to make better decisions.
A well designed and constructed cage is a plus to any vehicle it is installed in. I am a HUGE fan of them! This is so true and well said! Over here in Australia it is difficult to get a car with a full cage past registration. That is because of poorly built cages having killed their occupants in previous accidents. Often guys have the cage and a 5 point harness but also have the standard 3 point belts required by law that they use for daily driving. As pointed out when wearing a 3 point belt you will move in a collision a LOT and you WILL impact the cage. Even with the requisite safety gear (I.e. Foam padding) the shear and impact concussive force of the body striking such a solid object will result in non survivable injuries. A lot of people still strike the windshield in an accident with a 3 point belt, now just think of how far they have moved to do that. This is from belt movement and stretch, body movement and stretch and in some instances vehicle deformity. You would be amazed at how far the human body can stretch! If you are going to put a cage in there is more to it than most people realise. Sure there are the basics like having it tied into the ch***is, satisfactory head room and seatbelt restraints but then there are things that I see missed a lot. The two biggest ones are, A, Incorrect foam padding used on the cage! For the love of god use the expensive high density impact foam! If you intend to race the car will not p*** scrutineering with the wrong foam. B, Seat structure. There have been serious bodily injury and some deaths both in motor sport and on the road due to seat failure. Almost all factory standard seats are not strong enough for use in a high performance car that has all this safety equipment. They become the fail point in the system negating all the time and work that has gone into safety. I won’t go into homemade seats, 99% of the time they are not good enough for a go cart, you may as well use sticky tape for your belts and exhaust tube for the cage! So now you’re asking what’s the point of this drivel? Simple, I know of what I speak, what I have written above is proven fact. For the guys that STILL say ‘Seat belts kill as many people as they save’ do us a favour. Take your own advice, you will be dead soon and with luck before you p***ed on your flawed genes. Cages save lives. 5 point harnesses saves lives. Good quality personal safety equipment saves lives. Well constructed and mounted seats saves lives. But always remember, there are still the inevitable unsurvivable accidents. Doc.
even if you have a f/c cage thats for the driver..... sorry for the misha my best friend and i used to blast the northern ohio farm roads in my super pro 70 dart 440 tunnel ram 4800 stall 486 gear mopar with out regards how bad the outcome could have been............ sorry for the outcome...hp is cool just respect it GREAZY HUBCAPZ EAST TN
I don't know about the rest of these guys, but I wasn't advocating for safety equipment because I'm for street racing. I was advocating for safety equipment, because getting hit by a Yukon on the highway in a Model A, without a cage and belts is very likely a game ending occurrence. Also, most every hot rod that deserves that name gets pushed to its limit at some time, hopefully on a track (be that autocross in a parking lot someplace, or the drag strip). Any time you push a car like that, there is a chance of a monumental ****-up, and if you're not prepared for it ahead of time, it will be your last ****-up. I don't advocate street racing. I don't care if the driver kills himself, it's his car and his life, that's his prerogative. However, on the street, you're a lot more likely to kill some uninvolved third party than you are yourself, and that is *********** in the extreme. I place that right up there with drunk driving, that **** don't fly. If you want to go run down an abandoned air strip and you roll your heap and kill yourself, fine, it's your ***, do with it as you please. But don't endanger other people's lives in the process.
I really didn't think this thread was going any where but we have had some good information and perspectives on this situation .....
as far as padding I know old stock car guys round here use to use the stuff they mad gym mats outta that thick stuff they wrapped the tubes then electrical taped teh **** out of it..I guess it soften the blow a lil ,,lol
I happen to see this car on Thurs, 27th parked at the reg. area for the Wheels of time show in Macungie, Pa. This car was built for comp. It had a full roll cage with x a both doors ( Not the ones that swing away). The cage was lacking some padding. The doors did open. There were 5 point harnesses for both seats. The NOS bottle was placed close to the P***ager seat on a shelf behind the seats. It had a kill switch and fuel shutoff at the back of the car. The front sheet metal was a one piece flip nose with a Pro stock hood scope on it. ( made it hard to see the right side of the car.) This car sounded nasty . The reason I know its the same car is the License plate (Rat FINK) I do not know if the car was driven there or trailored but it was in Macungie that Thurs. I did not see it the rest of the weekend. It may have been street legal in Ohio but the hood scope Would have made it not in Pa.
Here's the padding you want to use: High density and fire retardant, it is SFI approved. The above stuff is made by Longacre, but a great many companies make it. This stuff is cast in 36" long sticks, not extruded like the open cell "soft" stuff you get from Speedway. It is very hard to the touch, not squishy at all. You can dig a fingernail in, but not very far. The Longacre padding is good stuff. I've bounced my helmet clad melon of off of it a few times, and while you do get your bell rung, you don't end up with a concussion, and that's what it's there for.
I'm only going to add my feelings on this as We have all made mistakes on the street in our Hot Rods or Mom's 4 door when we were young. The driver in this crash was/is from the Tampa area and one of the best know ch***is and cage guy's in the business. I don't know if He has moved or was just on vacation as I have moved from his area in Tampa. No matter the reason or poor decision as to what happen the fact is someone was killed and my friend Phil may be facing charges. I believe when it's your time it's your time no matte what. But we can only learn from others and try not to put ourselves and others in danger. Not knowing if there was a failure or stuck throttle or what the cause was this is tragic. Phil if this post finds you or someone who p***es it along I'm thinking about you and here to help if I can. Chin up old buddy. Ted Kempgens
I find it fascinating that there is so much more concern about roll cage safety in Hot Rodders than there is in police departments everywhere I've been. I have interviewed hundreds of cops and each and EVERY one of them poo-pooed the notion that a prisoner might be punished with a par***ion. Off the record... many cops have boasted about how they enjoy the discretionary la***ude to slam on the brakes whenever a rear seat occupant becomes a poor conversationalist. Their apathy is even more profound concerning the cops who are rendered unconscious by the roll cage/par***ion in rear-end collisions that evolve into infernos. If they don't regain consciousness in time or aren't pulled out of the burning cruiser... the death rate is 100%. The survival rate for those who EXITED the burning cruiser... is 100%. Padding on par***ions isn't optional. It is mandatory to maintain the benefit of the federally mandated padding for the head impact area of the back of the front seat, even when after-market equipment like a par***ion is made, sold or installed. The roll cage is a ROLL-cage. Not a CRASH-cage. The performance is for roof-rollover-crush-resistance, a Federal standard now exists for roof-roll-over-crush-resistance... making the 'roll bar par***ion configuration' usage redundant. I don't want my local cops rolling our cruisers either, so they needn't plan for it and should stop getting their nuts off chasing speeders. Too many die... cops, speeders and innocents nearby.
I've owned several very fast street/strip cars w/ cages in them. Me personally, I'm good for maybe 30 minutes tops cinched down in a 5 pt harness & then I have to get out. On one car I drove alot, I had the brilliant idea of installing a 3 pt system for just driving to an event. WRONG! Too much movement, even with padded bars will beat the **** out of you. On the 55, I finally took the cage out when I re-did the interior. Cage in car- you will have to run a 5 pt harness & live with it. Also, every trip in the car will be with a helmet. Think about it. We talk about driving our cars but unless you've actually driven a quick street car w/ a cage, helmet (on a real hot day) & a 5 pt harness to a show 100+ miles away, you have no clue. This isn't aimed at anyone in particular, just my experience.
You get used to it. There have been nights where I spent damned near two hours in belts, wearing a full face helmet, in July, in Missouri (which means 95 degs F, and 95% humidity). If you make sure the thing is comfortable on the inside, how long you spend in there don't matter. My race cars were always comfy as hell. There were many nights that I fell asleep in the staging lanes waiting for my feature to start. A good nap really recharges a guy pre-race. The trick is waking up before the guy next to you on the grid decides he needs to get some heat into his motor. THAT is a rude awakening.
http://www.polkcountytoday.com/acc083009.html There is the link to the pics and why it got locked to me was kinda silly, I think we could all learn something from it One person thought it was possible that the head trama could of been a result of contact with the asphalt ? And, I kinda tend to agree although, the truth may never be known Its tragic and terrible and some poor info in the words in the link but surely we should not ignore it
If you look at the pics, the p***enger side has no head rest and behind the seat is full of "helmet busters". Proper design and just plain common sense goes a long way toward making a cage safer.
Yeah, but looking at the pictures, there isn't any blood on any of that stuff, meaning the guy didn't hit it hard enough to break the skin. I find it difficult to blame that guy's death on the roll cage in that car. Fact is, they got into a racing accident, while not wearing racing gear, and one of them croaked it as a result. It ****s, but that's how it is. He died by m***ive application of stupidity by the driver, and his poor choice to strap in next to him. I don't mind risking my neck doing stupid ****, but only when it's my foot on the throttle and my hands on the wheel. I wouldn't let someone else be responsible for my life. By that same logic, I won't be responsible for anyone else's life either. When I do ignorant ****, I do it alone, some place where I won't kill anybody but me. If I kill me, it's all good, I got what I had coming to me. That car was not responsible for the poor fellow's death, human error was. Both guys should have known better.
By the looks of the second pic the guy wasnt wearing a belt, I thinks thats his foot hangin out from under the sheet. Partial ejection would have done it. None the less, proper placement of accessories and cage compontents can and will reduce the possiblity of injury.
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