351 Cleveland...NEED SOME ADVICE....

Thanx...I'll remember that....

 

A light knock once in a while genreally won't kill a motor. If you want to eliminate it for good there are two things I'd look at. One is M.S.D. ign and a dist set up correctly for your cam and driving style.That can be spendy to say the least but a good way to go. The other is to change out the Head gaskets. You can now get a veriaty of thickness to help dial in compression ratios. If you can get to the exposed corner of one in the motor measuer it. If it's a stock .030 gasket you can go up to .120 thick and most likley eliminate the Knock all together. If you go this route you may also need longer pushrods since they are a fixed factory setting with the rocker stands just torqued down. It's fairly in expensive and something you can do at home with basic tools.
The Wizzard

 

That makes more $ sense for me...and something I could do myself....thanx ALOT!

 

Higher mileage motors often have a lot of carbon buildup in the chamber that also can add a little compression bump and pinging....In my old auto mechanics cl*** the teacher used to tell us to dump a can of coke down the carb while running, cleaning out the carbon before dis***embly but i've never tried it....Probably just make it burp

 

The Cleveland isn't a performance engine? really? Ford considered the 4V to be, though they thought of the C2V as a cruiser engine. They have the canted valves & the 2V with the smaller valves still have the same size as the 2.02 heads the Chevy guys drool about & the 4v has the same size as the 454. The CR on the 70-71 run 9.5 on the 2V & up to 11.4 on the 4V. 72-74 8.0-8.6. The c is my 2nd favorite behind the early Hemi. Way beter the the 351Wheezer.

 

Good solid reliable engines. Have ran many miles up on them in Mustangs & Torinos.

 

Damnit! I missed the fun. Aww well, I hope to get on his case in his next stupid post. It may not be today but it will happen.

Can you guys imagine the stupidity? Getting on the HAMB and dis respecting the '****** is like walking into the White House oval office, handing your coat to the black man and saying I know how much change is in the pocket N&%$£R.
The man pointed out a BOARD RULE. Everyone gets the same treatment if they don't post an intro.

Anyway, the 351C is one of the worlds most underrated motor. You can make oodles of HP and still have something you can live with. I ran a 351C with 496hp as a daily driver. Yes pinging could be an issue if I got some less than stellar fuel but the motors are bullet proof.
You will find most people sprouting the same basic text they read about the 351 family of motors. The truth is that the weak points are hard to identify in the real world even when you know what you are looking for.
If at worst you need to run a quality fuel it will be a small price to pay for such a superb motor! Keep a can of quality octane booster for the times you cant get good fuel and you will love driving your truck as long as you have it.
Another thing that can help it a lead subs***ute additive. Unless you have hardened valve seats and valve guides (Same with any lead era motor) I ran some in my Falcon. It cost an extra $4 a tank, a small price to pay.
If you ever want to work your motor look for Australian parts, especially the heads. Our 2 and 4V heads breathed a HELL of a lot better than any made in the US. The 351 is about equal to the 350 Chev here in popularity and go fast parts availability.
Doc.

 

OK what a thread.

Anyhoo being a dripping Ford Blue guy ( Although I have a Hemi Fiat Altered) I caught attention to this thread.

Instead of 2 finger typing a novel I will just give a few links FYI to read.
First though you say its out of a Truck?? Then its not a Cleavland but an M (modified) engine. Thats a very different animal altogether. (it has 351 Windsor Main Journal size, taller deck) Unless someone put it in. Be sure of what you are gettin into. Australian Heads, 2v, 4v open Chamber , closed chamber. Lions and tigers oh my. Welcome to Ford and all its quirks.
Please note that Ford never had a Big Block , Small Block deal. That was talked by followers of GM. Ford had series engines like the Cleavland which was a 335 series Engine. The FE, 385 etc...

351 C is a great engine with a great past. Just look at early Pro Stocks by Wayne Gapp , Don Nicholson. It has its drawbacks and weaknesses though which need to be addressed for racing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_335_engine

http://www.streetmachineclub.com/Projects/Project.aspx?id=128774

http://phystutor.tripod.com/stang/engines/cleveland.html

http://www.ausfordparts.com/index.html

Pretty choped up post and am sorry but this is a major deep subject. Start reading and get up on the engine. Lots of people will tell you to just forget it and do a small block chevy..

hey good luck
.

 

Hi Doc:
You Australians rule. And Kept the 351 C alive...
I Love Australia.
thank you
Luke

 

Clevelands are great motors.

 

LZ, we know were good, you don't need to tell us!

We seem to bleed the same blue, (Though I am building a Buick powered Austin), I must say I do love the fact that Ford Oz kept up with these motors after everyone moved on.
We never got the 427/8/9 351 was a biggest motor so we had to make it work!

Doc.

 

Thanks Havi:

OH **** I spelt Cleveland wrong to.......

I should just shut up and keep lifting heavy things I cant type whats going on in my head..

 

Thanx HAVI...so ya "LZ" its from another ride for sure....thanx for the info though,

 

Buick powered Austin That sounds neat

Hey isnt someone casting nice thick wall Cleavland's down there??
I have not kept up with all thats happened with that engine. I still have a B302 and a low millage 351 CJ Engine in storage though Sold My Gapp High Port Heads...... My kids will probably auction them off when I go Belly up...
Never enough time is there??
good luck
Luke

 

Hey no worries . Research the Engine it has a great past in Drag Racing.

IN fact if I remember correctly on the cover of the Bill Jenkins Book wasnt he holding a 351 C tunnel ram over a small block.... Probably busting the Balls..

Whats your Log in name mean?
.

 

Mine /Wife's/ My 2 Lil Boys Initials

 

DART.
Look here, Pavtek is motor heaven.

http://www.pavtek.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=113&Itemid=33

There are some very cool aftermarket heads out there too, you can build a mountain of motor in a compact 351 CI.

Thanks man, think 401, Hilborn, Winters QC, Austin A40 straight axle..........

 

Holy cow Pal.... We need pics....
Austins are great.

Check out this link for a Local G***er club..

http://www.g***ergang.com/g***ergang/HOME.html

 

Sorry wasnt trying to be nosy. Just curious. I kept trying to sound it out like a Vanity plate..

 

Pinging is pretty hard to nail down, could be alot of things.
timing and compression like they said.
Running a 160 degree stat instead of a 190 can help if the engine's on the verge of pinging.
I had a 400 in my 77 f150. Low compression smog motor. It was pinging everytime I left from a stop and pulling a hill no matter what I did. After tearing it down I saw the dished pistons confirming the low compression ratio and found 3 exhaust valve cracks which were hot spots causing the ping.
I built a 460. I had plans of running on LPG (I never got it hooked up) so I went with flat-top pistons giving me about 10.75:1 compression with 98?cc 1977 460 heads.
It was pinging right away. I tried additives and race gas, timing and carb jetting changes everything helped a little but didn't solve the problem.
It never overheated enough to blow antifreeze out but when running the interstate, temps would climp to then level out at 190/200 degrees with a 160 degree stat. any other time it maintained 160 degrees.
At around 2,000 miles on the engine I lost a head gasket and a bit of the piston near the intake valve relief on the #7 piston from the pinging
but after deburring the chipped piston and installing a new gasket and themostat, It turned out that the compression was fine for 91-93 octane, my radiator was doing it's job fine but the old new thermostat wasn't opening all the way and that was what caused the higher block temps and pinging. I'd probably be better off with aluminum heads running flattops on gas in the 460 or running the dished pistons but it was an adventure getting to the root cause of the ping. In both cases it turned out to be something only descernable after a tear down and re***emble.
If you could get ahold of a boroscope to get a peak in there make sure to examine the exhaust valves for cracks ( they will be gaping and ugly or non existent) and look at the steel head gasket ring if it can be seen for a burnout and check the piston top for erosion where there should be a sharp edge. there really isn't supposed to be a sharp edge but if there is and it's a hotspot it will probably be pecked out or melted looking.

 

THe true 351 Cleveland were only made from 1970 to 1974 After that they were 351 M (Modified).

If it happens to be a true cleveland the 2V motors were 9.5:1 compression and the 4V motors were 11.0:1 compression. The 4v motor was a good compe***ion motor but the 2V motor was a better street motor.

The 4V heads m***ive intake runner that would work well at high RPMs but would make it sluggish at low RPM. The 2V heads smaller runners that work well at mid RPMS.

One issue this motor had if you did not restrict the oil p***ages to the top end, at high RPMS you could pump all of the oil off of the pan which would starve the motor of oil.

The later 351M heads had large chambers that were over 100 cc and some had compression as lower as 8.0:1. Some block also had a higher deck height.

THe 4v cleveland motor had anywere from 300 to 330 Hp and 370 to 380 ft/lb of torgue from the factory and the 2V had 250-240 Hp and 350-355 ft/lb of torgue.

We raced a lot of these motors back in the 70s before going to the 429 and had a lot of good luck with them.

 

As I posted earlier CR varies depending on year. 351M/400 is a raised block vs the 351C.

 

Good thing you don't have 12 kids!!!

 

Don't listen to the **** about 351 4V Clevelands being sluggish. That's just ********! Whoever said that obviously never owned one. I had one in my truck too. Headers are a small problem when putting a 4V in a truck, because NOBODY makes them. '71-'73 Mach1 headers fit with very little work.

93 octane Super unlead will cure your valve pinging.

Kevin
Ooltewah Sped Shop

 

I'm surprised Doc is the only Aussie who's replied to this question. Ah well, everyone must be asleep. It is kinda late.

You got pinging issues? Here's three things you can do. Disconnect the va*** advance and see what happens. Secondly, it might be a tired motor which means carbon build up. Last but not least, just fill the tank up with avgas like we used to do.

 

Nice Truck Kevin..

 

Wow

 

No ****...