so i've been working on getting the '79 Camaro subframe merged to my '41 Plymouth rails. I realize that a lot of you probably aren't big fans of this procedure but... maybe some of you are. Is there anyone that has done this before that has any advice for me? As you can imagine I just want to make sure I do it right. my first concern is track width. My '41 frame came with no suspension whatsoever so I'm not sure what stock track width is, although it doesn't look like it will be far off. I know a common problem with this is that the camaro sub is too wide, but the Plymouth rails seem to be wider than a similar year Ford/Chevy (there's a '41 Ford frame in my dad's yard and it's 2-3" narrower than the Plymouth one). I still suspect track width to be slightly wider than stock, and I plan on widening the fenders (front and rear) to compensate. It sounds wierd but it looked great on ThinkFink's '41. another concern is strength. I believe that normally when this is done the stock rails are welded to the top of the subframe rails (right?). Being that the Plymouth rails are wider than many frames I've seen from ye olden dayes, the sub slid between the Plymouth rails (quite neatly I might add). My plan is to weld the subframe to the inside of the rails, and allow the rails to continue out below the subframe where they curve inward and be welded there. Hopefully if this sounds sketchy one of you wise oldtimers will tell me so... I don't want my car to break in half.
I did it on my 41 Chevy and it worked perfectly. Car drove awesome. many will tell you it is too wide, but worked good for me. I ran 15x6 centerlines on the front and never rubbed. I also welded it into the flat part of the rails. Only problem you will have is that you have to notch the core support to clear the steering box. No big deal for a nice steering ride. I used a early 70's master cylinder and pedal, manual brakes with front disks. Alot of local builders drove my car and commented on how nice it rode, steered, and stopped. Good luck with your project.
Track width on the camaro sub related to the rear axles track. 67-69 f-body and nova about 40" wheel flange to flange. 1970-1981 41" flange to flange same as 46 chevy pickup front axle that's all i know about that.
My 40 dodge has a 79 firebird sub. installed by the previous owner. No need to widen the front fenders. Find s-10 4wd steel wheels(you'll have to run hubcaps)the 6"wide ones. You'll need to put a 7/16 spacer behind the wheel as the tie-rod will rub the wheel because it sits in too far. They slid the sub frame inbetween my rails also. The pie cut the stock frame and pinched it then welded the stock frame to the sub. You will have to cut off the front body mounts and make new ones as they are moved inward because of the frame pinch. You can use dodge truck motor mounts and truck oil pan and slide a small block mopar in there. Slot the sub frame so it's easier to bolt the mounts in, don't ask me how I know.
my first concern will be with.measure the rear if is withing one inch it should be ok.Ijust finish sub framing a 50 pontiac with fellow hamber the chief,his car.we both opted to fit the t/a sub frame in between the ch***i of the pontiac,it may only be in our heads but we both agreed that is stronger an easeir to do it this way.any questions feel free to write.keep posted as we took lost of pictures that the chief is going to be posting soon.
I'm doing a Camaro subframe on a 49 Cadillac now. The only real problem I forsee is the front mounted steering box. As already stated it runs into the core support area but hell thats what crossflow radiators are for. Check your measurements three time over. I have seen people have to relocate the wheel well openings to center the wheel from bad measurements. When you think you're ready to cut measure again. Best of luck!
my friend has a 41 plymouth wit a 72 nova clip and rear, the front clears everything wit no problem but the rear end seams a lil too wide, i dont think u can bad it wit out it rubbing here is a old pic of it this are some of the pics i have uploaded, from my 50 pontiac wit the t/a clip
This is soooooo tempting! Those front ends are plentiful, cheap, versatile and easy to install. But no matter how you slice it, they're too damn wide! You can get everything to fit under the fenders, sure, but the car has to sit like a "hillbilly hot rod" to keep from rubbing the fenders. You can hide the problem to some extent by using inset wheels, but the car looks "funny" when the wheels are pointing anywhere but straight ahead. "50fraud" here on the HAMB has one under his '50 Vicky, but it was narrowed several inches, a job that by his own admission was a lot more trouble than it was worth. If you've just gotta go low-buck, take a look at an S-10 front suspension. Better, but not at all ideal if you're looking for a really clean install. When building my car, Ray Lund used a Fatman Fabrications Mustang II front suspension kit on my '48 Plymouth coupe and it worked out perfectly. The car is 'way low WITH NO BAGS, rides and handles well and has no clearance issues. The best thing about the MII front end, however, is that it looks right under the car.
I have to say that I side with missysdad1 on this one, If that's the car I think it is, that's the one that inspired me to build mine about twenty years ago, (the one you did originaly for Eric Peirce maybe?). My car now has close to 300000 mi. under it's Mustang 11 front end and it fits and works extremely well. Mine is a little lower than Ray's. I have never seen a camero clip that looked or fit right on one of these cars, they are just too wide. It always sounds like such an easy deal to do, cut here, weld here, and your done. In my experience, you spend a lot more time making the front sheetmetal and bumpers fit thanyou do grafting the clip. Then whatcha gonna do with the steering box when it and the grille want to be in the same place. It goes on and on. I've done quite a few clips over the years ,and some cars are made for them, these cars are not.
in all the time i have been doing clips the 70-81 camaro,75-79 nova and 70-81 trans am clips are generally too wide for most applications. one place the fit nice is 53'+ ford trucks,55'+ GM trucks and other trucks of that era. although the game changes when someone narrows one it levels the playing field. the aftermarket front ends that look like M2 are like a 3rd cousin to M2. i have a 50' chevy truck that someone put a M2 in 30 years ago and did a nice job complete with lower struts even and i think its a good thing the project never was completed as the M2 was pretty light duty.
Some ****tard stuck a narrowed GM clip on the front of my 40's frame before I bought it. That's why it's under the parts body now..... I can take pictures to show you how NOT to do it.... Can't even push the thing around, gotta drag it.... My BP is going up and I may type more that I may regret, so I'm stopping here.
hmmm.... things to think about. this is a shot in the dark, but does anyone know what the front flange to flange width is on a stock '41 Plymouth?
We subed my sons 38 chysler, we used a 67-69 camaro you don't have the front steer to fret with, and as for the track, we layed a piece of 2" tape right down the middle and cut both sides and welder it back up. we grafted it in and boxed it in, looks like it came from the factory with it.
I did my 51 Merc with a first series Camaro stub slipped in pretty much the way that The Chief showed that he did the 41. The stub slid right in between the stock rails and with a bit of t******* fit up to the X member. The car handled great and would still have the setup if I hadn't had problems with the back end of the frame. The stock radiator support even matched up to the front crossmember of the stub with a couple of thin spacers. I did have to do a lot of t******* on the inner fender wells though. With some of the narrower cars and trucks the S-10 front stub might be a better option especially if you intend to run any type of reverse wheel.
Track width is something you really need to consider before you buy a subframe to use in the car. There's a reason they sell pre-narrowed A-arms for these GM front ends. Another option is to use a Jaguar XJ sedan front end, they unbolt from the car and come in a couple widths. Disc brakes, power rack and pinion steering. Best part is you don't have to cut your actual frame to install it.
I put a 79 firebird sub frame under my 41 ply 15 years ago.No problems yet,drives great .When I did it I kept the sub frame intact and ran it under the ply frame and trimmed the ply frame to match where the sub frame kicks up.Makes for a strong bond,however the car sat to high for me but dropped spindles and half a coil chopped fixed that.The motor[350 olds]sits low with this set-up.Could run a blower with no hood issues.Best way is to go into the frame like shown above.Width is no problem as long as your satisfied with6 inch wide wheels with stock offset.Steering box sits right behind the grill.Have a camero rear with 8 in.wide rims,no clearence issues there either.Good luck
No, I'm the Eric Pierce that used to live in Simi Valley. Ray Lund, who also lived in Simi at the time, did all the ch***is work and fabrication on my Plymouth coupe - which I still own and regularly drive - some fifteen years ago. I still give him credit for the work, which was excellent in all respects. I've lost touch with Ray over the years. He was a great car builder, but got a little burned out, moved out to the desert and re-established himself in the construction business. Too bad, but he was smart enough to know his own limits...which were darn few. Missysdad1
Stock hub to hub on a '41- '48 PLymouth is right around 56.5 inches. Stock hub to hubon a camero firebird etc. is around 60 inches. big difference for tire fit. 55dude - unless the Pinto/Mustang 11 front end under your truck is pre '72, it is more than tough enough for your truck. Myfavorite comparison has always been ball joint diameter, Mustang11 is a bit larger than camero. Same with tie rod ends etc. I do have to agree about aftermarket Mustang 11 stuff though, most today have had their geometry messed with in the name of making it fit. Roll centers, spring rates, strutless arms, All to be wary of. I still use original Mustang 11 stuff when I do them. crossmember and all. They're still pretty plentiful around here. As a mater of fact I'll be doing my girlfriends '55 Chevy first series in the next month or so, maybe I'll start a thread when I do.
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