P51 wheelwells.... <script src="http://www.coolchaser.com/javascripts/freecause.js" type="text/javascript"></script><script src="http://www.coolchaser.com/javascripts/freecause.js" type="text/javascript"></script>
Good point about the fuels, and that's a good reason NOT to remove the anodizing. Whenever we modify a fitting for use in the alcohol fuel system, we have it re-anodized before use, or the methanol will DESTROY the aluminum. BTW, most anodizing shops will have an array of available colors, so if it's in the budget, go pea-green, grey or whatever you feel is "period-correct". Period.
Not true. I know, having worked on large and small aircraft for over 40 years. In hot sections, as on turbine engines the fuel lines are a combinatin of carbon steel and stainless steel, otherwise, where light weight in systems is always a factor, they are mostly aluminum. Fuel, jet or gasoline, does not affect Fuel pumps, valve bodys, other fuel related housings which are made of aluminum. Fuel transfer tubing and metal tanks on many small aircraft were made of aluminum, have been since Christ was a coproral. When water, or algae encroaches a system, then corrossion is a problem. In large aircraft with 'wet wing' fuel tanks, the tanks are sealed to prevent fuel from leaking out, but when it does leak through the structures, there is no adverse effect on the structure from corrosion, absent chemicals or water. Aluminum tubing used in aircraft systems for fuel, gasoline or jet fuel, is not anodized on the inside. Aluminum tanks used for carrying fuel and alcohol, deicing and thrust augmented water/alcohol are not anodized on the inside. The statements regarding reasons for the color coding is debatable of course, but the mil-specs describe the colored anodizing is for identification purposes, designating the specific alloying of metal in the fitting and for identifying the type of fluid carried in the respective line.
not finished yet, but getting there. took a long time to plumb all this and a lot of the lines you can't even see. off topic yes,but when it's done,every wire,every line, will be neatly in place. car came with miles of rubber vaccume lines, I would be happy to never see another rubber hose. If someone sees it at a show when it's done,and keeps walking oh well, can't please everyone, still need a good oil thermostat to finish hooking up the cooler, I know I don't want my engine oil running through cheap made in china rubber hoses. the ones who stop should appreciate all the time it takes to run all that.
Good lord, there must be ten grand in Aeroquip fittings and tube under that hood. Was that little base car worth as much as the plumbing when you started on it?
For those wanting the "optional" colors there are alternatives (as has been mentioned) - some of which designate intended use. For instance the old aluminum aircraft filters I have show signs of having been HARD ANODIZED internally which is far better in terms of corrosion resistance. In the attached pic the two fittings on the right are MODERN Hard Anodized (seems to be alot darker than the "old" stuff BTW) The fitting on the left is I believe the CLEAR Anodized finish and is actually the silver color as seen on the lower part - the color reflected off the Hard Anodized one next ot it. On my dragster I will eventually switch over to all hard anodized fittings as they hold up MUCH better to methanol than the red/blue fittings do. BTW - buying them plain (no finish) and sending them out sounds like a good alternative. The two one off fittings on the right I sent out for Hard Anodizing. I kinda like the looks of 'em.
well to me it is, lots of the fittings and tube given to me so i lucked out. plus some stuff i saved from back when i used to do some road course racing. I probably will end up with the '28 before too long, my dad is getting too old to finish it, but anything i run in there will have black fittings or stainless,no red or blue.
Don't take that the wrong way, I wasn't trying to run you or your ride down or anything, I was just presented with a joke, so I had to make it. It's one of my principals, "Sometimes you have to sacrifice nice for funny." Nothing personal, I don't even disagree with doing what you're doing, that's just the very first thing that popped into my head when I saw that pic. At any rate, it ought not leak. Ever.
All my cars use stainless lines & AN fittings. No aluminum, no red or blue, but unpolished stainless. Anyone who thinks AN fittings on pre 64 hot rods is not traditional should do some research. My dad worked for the airline industry & all our hotrods had AN surplus on them in the 50's, right up to today. I don't like red hose & those cheap clear inline filters- so what? Both IMO are traditional but I have my preference.
A few hints on the Earl's stuff. If the latest catalog I have is what's supplied now, there are fewer stainless hose ends than aluminum. Pretty good assortment of plated steel or stainless fittings not destined for the end of a hose. Vis a vis the colored AN fittings, red & blue anyway, you don't need the fancy aluminum wrenches. They look impressive hanging on the wall, but mine are covered with dust. Reason being, aluminum wrenches tend to scratch and gall the aluminum fittings. What works better is a set of over 50 year old Craftsman wrenches that have the edges worn round. A very slight bevel it is, but they don't tear up the aluminum fittings like aluminum wrenches do. Modern wrenches work ok if you touch them lightly on their sharp edges with a somewhat worn disc/Pearl Wheel (known as a flap wheel to some) on your 4" grinder. Even a touchup with the coarse side of a carborundum stone will do it. As for the JIC fittings shown above, be careful when using the hydraulic lines with fuel. Especially gasoline. Little brother plumbed his Henry J drag racer with the stuff and it worked well. I did the same and no probs with the oil system, but one overnight and the fuel line leaked like a sieve. Earl's makes a plastic fabric line similar in appearance to the braided stainless line, but it comes in colors. Works well. The JIC line shown in my pic above is rated 3000#. Earl's is rated 1750# if memory serves. Jic line is stiffer than Earl's braided stainless so that enters into the equation. I still run a pair of the sky blue #10 lines inside the frame to the remote oil filters in the 32 and no probs after 15 years. I did replace the Jic lines between oil filter adapter and bukhead 90's since there was a fairly sharp bend and I'd found the Earl's line to be more flexible. Home-made oil filter adapter to frame bulkhead 90*. The oil filter adapter is a two piece unit that sets the outlet and inlet anywhere on a 360* circle and the 90* fittings point in any direction. Very flexible device it is. For those who have an engine that takes a filter with a base pattern similar to the common Fram Ph8a Ford's SHO division carries a very nice adapter that would work well. Folks running the late BBB (430-455) should stay away from the commercially made adapter. It has a very thin o-ring and can leak very easily. Take note that the stanless braided stainless is an excellent slow speed saw. You don't want to run it to where it can touch things. It'll cut a hole right through whatever it's lying on . Use Adel clamps - you can find them at True Value Hardware at really cheap prices. Buy a bunch and keep em on hand....
You can get many different colors and platings. I sell 5 lines of fittings, Aeroquip, Earls, Mr Gasket 'Shadow,' Red Horse, and my private label Big End Performance. Then there are also fittings from other manufacturers such as Aeromotive (black) and Magnafuel (purple) to supplement their fuel pump line. All of the fitting companies do the traditional red and blue... In addition, Red Horse, Earls, Aeromotive, and Big End also do fittings in all black. Mr Gasket and Russell do black and silver fittings. Something neat that Big End performance offers is the sleeves for the hose ends in other colors like purple, blue, gold, copper, lime green, and silver to customize things. I tried my best to get some quality photos from the internet to try and show the colors and gloss of the fittings. Yes, gloss is a factor. Aeroquip fittings are almost satin in appearance. The Mr Gasket Shadow is the same way... the black looks dull and the silver isn't glossy. Now, the Earls is pretty shiney... as are the Red Horse and Big End. Don't pay too much attention to the Red Horse photo... they aren't that nice. That photo is a ringer... a glamor shot. Here is the Aeroquip Nickel plated, which is my personal favorite here is an example of Aeroquip steel fitting Russell has the biggest assortment of fittings...here is black and silver Endura finish... stainless steel... Earls does the red and blue... as well as "annotuff" which appears pretty thick, almost like powdercoat Red Horse brand are really nice and inexpensive. notice their name on the edge... Here is the Big End performance sleeves on black hose ends. Not traditional, but still pretty neat and finally for giggles here is the Magnaflow purple... Hoses get a little tricky. All of the companies do the traditional... er... standard braided stainless hose. There is a black cloth/nylon covered braided line that Aeroquip, Earl's, and Russell sell which is pretty cool. Its similar to what you see in the picture of Norwell's truck. I don't know the brand he used, but the lines I sell don't have the cool tracer in it like his does. Aeroquip 'Startlite' hose has a red single trace in it. The Russell and Earls hose appears shiny while the Aeroquip has a cloth appearance to it. Here is the Aeroquip and the Earls and the Russell All of this hose can be used with either crimp on ends or with reusable hose ends like the stainless hose. Other hose includes 'socketless' or 'pushlock' which takes a push on hose end like so... the hose is an elastomer covered hose which appears wrapped... this is the Aeroquip socketless Again, this is just the product lines I know... there is other stuff out there. I'm just trying to put something out there to show some of the differences and maybe clear up some confusion. If you have any doubts, you can always wander in to your local speed shop and see what they have on the shelf... or ask to see a catalog. You'd be surprised what you may find!
Good summary. I've used the Aeroquip Socketless hose and steel fittings for fuel lines on my circle track cars for years, and it is good stuff. Very tough, never leaks. I even had a line get tangled up in a gnarly crash once, and while it did look like it'd been chewed on by a pit-terrier, it didn't leak a bit (I replaced it, of course, but that inspires some serious confidence, IMO at least). Don't discount the socketless hose and fittings for low pressure stuff like fuel supply and return lines, they perform admirably, and cost quite a lot less than the braided line and fittings. The socketless fittings are a hell of a lot easier to assemble too.
I think someone said something about fittings not being traditional. But I don't remember. Then someone said something about something else. Then that guy posted the picture of Norwell's engine compartment... and then all bets were off.
I got tons of different size an fittings and hoses off of aircraft i work on and they just throw them out every 5 years but lucky for me i just take them home there all in excellent condition and i got boxes of them let me know if you need any of them and hit me up
oh it's ok no offense taken. sorry if it sounded like it was. yea the no leak part is what i'm looking at, small hoses under a lot of pressure before the thermostat opens and they are running in bypass. I've seen guys running those cheap oil coolers and thermostats with the barbed fittings,on high dollar engines and I have to wonder why. I wouldn't trust em. Don't know if you noticed but I didn't have room for a regular oil cooler, so i used an aircraft one with a plenum, squirrel cage blower under the bumper corner, thermostatically operated. Just had to move the battery. thats another project for a battery box thread.
Well I'm really glad we all got some useful information out of this thread! I really had no idea there was so much history behind the AN fitting... As was pointed out right from the beginning I am just too young to associate them with anything other than 5.0 Mustangs and the jegs catalogue... ha ha Thanks again to all the guys who posted some awesome links, pictures and some really great info!
yea usually when I see something plumbed with them at a show i stop and take a look, chances are if they went to the trouble to run them,what they are attached to is just as interesting. traditional or not. Of course you have the guys who buy the ones already pre made up and have one AN line and a bunch of rubber hoses, but I won't go into that.
another reason I run them,is this car came factory with a really good pcv system, and oil seperator, but the hoses from the pan to the seperator would always rot or leak, wanted to keep the system to maintain clean oil and prevent sludge, but stop leaks, so lots of modifications to the steel seperator box and to the oil pan itself and now it's all braided. also added a catch can to keep crap from the pcv from going into the manifold. like someone else said, I get a lot of them because the FAA says they are stale. hose can be new on the shelf,never used, caps still on it, but if it's over five years old, it's no good. not a thing wrong with it eithier. All my big pcv hoses came off of the remains of a prototype turboprop that had sat for about a decade, I wouldn't trust those for pressure,but fine for the pcv system.
I stole this from Littleman because it's fuckin cool! Only thing I would have done different is stainless nuts & sleeves.
That's what I run, and never had a problem, running -8. My Holley Blue pump is 14 lbs, with a regulator set to 5. The volume is there and theres no turbulence or heat. Its NHRA legal, and the 410 Sprint guys I have set it up for love it. They have been in some wrecks that you would think would have been a fireball, but the fuel systen stayed intact and didn't spill a drop, with AQP aluminum pushlock fittings and FC-332 pushlock hose. If you look at Eatons industrial application chart, they make the same hose for gas pumps, just using swivel crimp ends. I am not a bit afraid to use the hard anodized aluminum fittings. I have never had a single failure with the Aeroquip ones, I can't vouch for the others, but the ones I have used are of excellent quality and not a leak one even with the car twisted in a knot.
while on this subject, I usually use aluminum hard lines, but will the stainless hard lines flare on the same flaring tool used for making AN flares for aluminum? i have an old flare tool, very high quality. the one with the rachet stops for different size tube. Also where do you get the stainless hardline? All I've ever seen is aluminum, I would like to replace some of the aluminum lines in my setup with stainless.
My hose ends are mostly aluminum red and blue but my AN to pipe adapters and unions are plane old black iron. Cheaper than stainless. Cheaper than plated. Easy to weld to if called for. And not so hard on the eyes.
The stainless tube will flare with the same flaring tool used for aluminum if the tool is heavy duty enough to form the flare without breaking. The stainless tube is much harder than aluminum. The tube is available from most plumbing/pipe suppliers, but is harder to form than softer annealed tubing available from places that specialize in automotive applications. I get most of mine from Inline Tube.
I learned how to build hoses from my uncle when I was about 8 yrs ols. He worked in the Locomotive Shop at Frisco Railroad. AN was all he used on his cars and that was the late '60's on a few differnt cars. In the '70's we put a Boss 302-4-speed into a '37 Plymouth 5 window. That was a gnarly little son of a bitch. But we plumbed about everything with hard anodized AN aircraft fittings and line. He was particular. He didn't like drips on the driveway.
I believe originally AN (Army/Navy) fittings were the steel hydraulic fittings used way back when and there are actually drawings that have this nomenclature on them. The flare on the hydraulic fittings are 37 degrees and 45 degree flares are used on air brake systems. I am not sure where someone started using the AN description for about any hydraulic flared fitting sold - somewhat like billet became the word you had to use to for anything made from aluminum. The old fittings were made from steel, usually with a cadmium plating and a clear dichromate. The plating progress to zinc due to EPA regs and the dichromate has clear and yellow colors. Then now you have the aluminum anodized "AN" fittings which you see on the race cars (and I am not 100% sure what degree flare they are) in addition to the steel fittings which still exist in the industrial world. I've seen websites detailing anodize removal, but if you don't want to worry about caustic endeavors, you may just want to check out you local hydraulic supply house and use steel fittings.
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