falcon alignment problem...

you said you have mustang steering parts on your falcon? Is the centerlink mustang as well?? They are not the same.. mustand one is longer.. not sure if thats the problem but find a 65 falcon centerlink.

 

Head hurting as well!!! Again, I think pulling the spring out and running it through will provide the best solution. Ricky - maybe if you klang yourself in the head again it will bring back lost memories!!! Or, at least be entertaining to your friends!!!

 

Yea... negative, sorry.

Sam

 

We raised a Falcon years ago and put the tie rods on top of spindle going down instead of up from the bottom,and it seemed to help then,i'm not sure if it will help you...We had to use a drive on alignment rack also,as every time it came off the lifted alignment one it was different (when they lift it and set it on stands to align you could go around the block and it would be off again.Drive on was in spec. after alignment)Something with unloading the chassis and settling i guess....

Good luck,
Steve

 

How is the bar that is bolted to the lower A-arm mounted to the chassis? I think it's pulling back the arm under lift and also creating a bind situation.

 

Ricky:

The 8 cylinder Rancheros/Falcon/Comets all came with "Torque Boxes" from the factory where as the 6 Cylinder Rancheros/Falcon/Comets did not. Please address this area asap!

 

I talked to my dad about this because he had the same issues with his 64 Cyclone drag car back in the day (the one in my avatar). He was advised to use balljoint spacers....no change. The to flip the tie rods which send to toe in the opposite direction. Then the car was sold and the problem was never resolved. He did say that another driver joked with him that he could probably pick up a couple tenths if his wheels would stay straight.

Dad remembers seeing the Falcons and Comets in the 60s that launched with the frt wheels perfectly straight.....like the Sachs & Sons pic above.

 

Any updates Rick? Your Falcon isnt higher than my Comet, and i havent had an issue...I still have the Comet spindles and such though...

 

where????

 

Look at how far down the tie rod is! it's actually below the control arm in all of those pictures.

 

the torque box is at the rear of the wheelwell...i dont believe your car has them...i may be wrong.

 

Torque box is a triangular box that connects the rocker panel to the front frame rails. Under the toeboard. Mostly on vert Falcons, Mustangs.

 

I'm not convinced that the Shelby mod is the culpret. Looking at that picture you posted makes me think to go lower with the arms. dont know to tell you how, but I think the answer is there.

 

Don't see how a torque box is remotely related to an toe issue. General strength of the vehicle, sure but toe, nope.

The few of these cars I have done, the Shelby Mod actually helped to correct a bumpsteer issue. If the center link is from a Mustang and thus too long for this narrower Falcon/Ranchero then the Shelby mod could come into play making a bad situation worse. Then this would be an issue of the position of the inner pivot of the tie rod and not the outer.

Truly the only way to be sure what is happening is to pull the springs and run the suspension through the motion. Make some adjustments and measure things to see which way is the correct way. Until then everyone is pissing in the wind.

 

Hey! My face is getting wet!!!!!

 

The Shelby mod is done to keep the front tires from "rolling over" in a hard turn. When the suspension is compressed, the mod allows the tire to stay flat on the road surface.

These cars were really light on the rear. The factory "dialed in" a little understeer which allows the cars to "push" in a turn instead of going into a spin (oversteer) for safety reasons. Doing the Shelby mod counteracts some of the factory understeer.

Bumpsteer appears when you raise or lower the front end of a car or mix suspension components.
You can bolt on Mustang, Cougar, Fairlane Granada suspension and it'll align OK...But will drive like hell.

 

Maybe I'm missing some thing. But on Falcons, Mustangs, Comets you have an Idler arm and a Pitman arm off the steering box. Wither it is a 6 cyl or V8 the idler arm and pitman arm are all most in the same arc as the lower control arm. If as some has mentioned he used a Mustang drag link , Which is 2 1/4 inches longer , that would move the pivot points out so far I am not sure you could get the toe in to come anywhere close. He needs to measure from the idler arm to the tie rod and from the lower control arm to the ball joint and see how close they are. Also he needs to set the car at it's normal height and then have some one jack the front up in the center and see what is causing the toe to fluctuate !!

 

Really, um ok. It's really about bias ply tire handling characteristics. But what ever.
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/736467/3

To be correct, bumpsteer is caused/created by a misalignment of the tie rod pivots to the control arms. Ride height on a 0 bumpsteer set up in null. That is the whole definition of bumpsteer, a change in toe through the suspension travel. Yep, you can get this by mixing parts up. But the reality is these cars had bumpsteer to begin with. In fact a lot of early IFS cars did.

 

Ahhh ha ha ha! Good stuff.

 

Negative camber gain, exactly. With the mod, when the suspension is compressed you gain negative camber, or the top of the tire moves toward the centerline of the car.

Yep, we're on the same page dude. All cars have some bumpsteer throughout the suspension travel. Even the ones that have been corrected. When you lower or raise the front of the car beyond where it was designed to run, you throw off the geometry and have added bumpsteer. Kits are sold to correct this that use heim joints and shims.
Been there
Done that
Bought the Kool-Aid

 

Okay Phoenix crowd enough of the swedish slurs! It's all about Ricky, and he's Mexican, kinda!! He hasn't posted to this in few days, so I'm assuming he has short circuted, or he's sleeping off the effects of removing another spring with a broken spring compressor, either way dude, let us know what you found. Wish I was there to help! BTW are swedish slurs racial? I might be a victim!!! COOL!!!

 

in order to eliminate bump steer the inner tie rod end and outer tie rod end should be parralel with the center the lower control arm bolt to frame and the center of the outer ball joint . if one or both ends are higher or lower it can really mess with the bump steer , also if the tie rods are too long or too short it will affect the bump as well . my first experience wit this was when i installed the spindles and steering linkage from a 69 torino on a 56 fairlane , when you hit a dip in the road it would literally swap lanes . i found that the center link was too low and by moving the idler arm up and heating and bending the pitman arm it fixed the problem . in oval track race cars we work to get the bump to as close to 0 as you can in 4 inches of travel , and iot is acomplished by moving the center link up or down and or the outer tie rod ends up or down . another thing that can affect it is if you change the caster alot , the tilt of the spindle moves the outer tie rod end up or down and affects bump steer

 

Nope, your whiter than white so it doesn't count, like someone laying down Polack jokes. But Ricky is the whitest brown kid I ever met

 

the center link may be the problem. my buddy is a big ford guy and he says that the 6 cyl and the V8 falcon have different center links. you need the V8 falcon link not the mustang. the mustang one is an inch longer.

 

hey guys, haven't messed with the car at all. kinda burnt out on it. might mess with it this weekend. anybody have an econoline front end they want to get rid of?

 

Actually 1.5"

 

Don, I just whent thru the same problem on a customers falcon. The front of the car had been raised (about 4 inches) with springs that were too stiff. the car was not driveable. the lower control arms were at a radical angle when the car was driven, the control arms moved in a different arch than the tie rods. It changed the camber as the front suspension moved up and down, and changed the front wheel tow. The fix was to put the car to the proper ride height so the lower control arms were parallel with the ground, and the steering geometry came back to what the ford engineers designed. Paul

 

I really don't think that's the fix he is looking for. The fact is that for the past 45 years, some people have had Falcon/Comet drag cars (and street cars) that have sat high in the frt and would launch with the correct toe. There is no doubt that a high frt end or launch lift causes the frt suspension to do weird things....just why do some toe in and others don't?

 

exactly. going to mess with it more this weekend. if i cant get this to work i'll probably put a straight axle under it.