Generator or alternator?

Anybody ever put alternator guts in a generator case? Seems like it might be difficult but maybe one of the baby alts from a late model.........
Just what I need, another interesting idea to slow down the `49 project.

 

Tommy, I'm a touch younger than you are but I seem to remember having to adjust the regulator from winter to summer or to compensate if you hooked up a trailer with lights and wasn't there something about polarizing it if you lost battery contact?

 

I'm cheating and running a Powergen, looks like a generator but has alternator internals.

 

how you drive the car needs to be taken into consideration. I have a '55 olds that has a stock motor, I drive this everyday to work and back. I go to work at just before 6am and come home about 5pm give or take an hour. the rocket is factory stock with a genny. I ran this for 18 months as is, but it chewed out a battery ( brand new 18 months ago) and I found that I had to charge it every weekend throughout the winter and it still died in 18 months!

problem was the drive to work. at near 6am there is not that much traffic and its only a 20 minute drive to work, but the traffic light stops killed the battery. The genny was working perfectly and I even had it tested to check. But in the end I swapped to an alternator just before this years winter ( now ) as the genny let me down ( flat battery) and I was carrying a jump pack in the car just in case. It got to the point that if I stopped on the way home and it was dark, I never knew 100% If it would start again.

But my point is. I would still happily run the genny if it was a weekend car, or I only used it every now and then even to work and back. it was the every day stuff that killed the battery. I could sit at the lights and in winter with the headlights on and heater fan on the battery was getting zapped to 30 minus. and the drive was not long enough to recharge the battery. then back it up with the same drive home.

if I was doing a trip it was not a problem.

so if your only weekend or occasionally using the car, go the genny, if your really daily driving it you may find you swap to a alternator in the long run.

I wouldn't be bothered on the genny craping out. I did 10,000 mi in the car before I swapped it out, it was as it was in the car when I got it, did some biggish trips in it with the whole family and never worried on the genny, more if the fuel gauge was accurate!

I have now done the experiment, if its a daily driver for me its now an alternator, if its a weekend type car, genny is fine.

 

Are parts still available for them? What about shops that rebuild generators? I know of no shops in my area but I do remember running all my cars back in the 60's using generators.

 

I've never adjusted a regulator. I have never encountered a reason to. I have replaced a few over the years on daily drivers with lots of miles on them. Shit breaks.

An alternator damn near burned my truck down but it was a used motor with the original alternator. I don't bad mouth alternators. Except that they are ugly and I personally think it's an easy way out for a builder that thinks easy is more important than the details of the build.

You do not need to polarize every time the battery is disconnected. If you want to run a generator get a Motors manual that covers the late 50s. It will have all the diagnostics if it should quit working. Look up how to polarize your particular generator. Fords and GMs polarize differently. I don't trust my memory and I look it up in the book on the very few occasions that I need to polarize. Usually only when replacing parts. I will have to polarize it when I get it started. I will look it up then when I do it.

I recently rebuilt my 64 Ford generator. I removed a perfectly good new rebuilt alternator because generators just say "it's an old car". I had a hard time finding one with the required mounts for my FE but I finally found one. If it were easy it wouldn't be as much fun.

New brushes and bearings came from Ebay for less than 20 bucks. It turned out that I needed a replacement armature. Macs had a new one for 25 bucks. I just checked and they have a complete overhaul kit for 60 bucks including the field windings. You will need access to a press for the pulley and bearing removal.

I got out my motors manual and it showed me how to connect the hot wire to test it. I thought that it was simply reversing the wires but that did not work. I connected the wires according to the book and watched as the generator happily "motored" proving that the generator is fine. I was pleased. I watched Ebay until I found an NORS Atlas regulator at a good price that was most likely made in America. I remember Atlas as being a good name for parts back in the 60s.

We never rebuilt generators or alternators back in the day. Time was the issue. This was the first one that I ever did. I wanted to be able to say that I rebuilt it. Most people will probably just buy a rebuilt unit. There won't be 3 people that ever notice the generator or it's NOS Cal Custom chrome cover but some will and they will understand. You really have to look to find it on my Ford.



If you really want your car to look like it was built in the 50s-60s it will not have an electric fan or an alternator. JMO

I don't know about towing a trailer other than a "pop up" or something like it with only a few more lights which will not be a problem. I would not be afraid of trailer brakes either. Cadillac's and Lincolns had higher out put generators for cars with all the bells and whistles.

Remember your car operates off of the battery. The generator simply recharges that battery. A rebuilt charging system and a good battery should last a long long time on a collector car. I'm sure my system will out live me.

 

Good informative post Tommy. I've got the original 324 Rocket engine in my olds and a one wire GM alternator mostly because that's what was in it when I got it and since it's mounted under the Vintage Air compressor that sort of makes it sensless to worry about period correctness. I ain't given up my A/C.

My Henry J has a chrome GM one wire on a SBC simply because most of it fell in my lap. I lost any period look there when I had so much of it thrown at me free and had to run aluminum pulleys because of clearance issues (straight axle, engine set way back) but it'll be so far under the dash no one will ever see it anyway.

Regardless of period correctness (which I completely understand and respect), I like gnarly mechanical looking things (Women excluded), so, I like those big ol' Mopar alternators.

 

I understand that they are not for everyone but it does bug me that the so called experts always like claim that alternators are more reliable. bullshit!

Just remember that the 1 wire alternators won't charge unless they get turning fast enough to start the charging. I've seen more than one 1wire alternator let the battery go dead on a car that was just putting around the fair grounds from space to space constantly starting the engine and never getting it turning fast enough to get it to charge and replenish the battery.

 

How do you guys dig up two year threads and then answer them as if they were last posted on two hours before? Not a bad answer but read the date of the post above yours.

I still say that Ryan needs to set it up so that threads are locked after x amount of time of inactivity and only the original poster on the thread can get them unlocked as in the case of long term project threads that all the sudden come back to life.

And the answers are still the same. Generators are great unless you have a bunch of electrical powered stuff on your rig that needs more output than a generator can put out.

 

Two years ain't nuthin' when you get to be our age.

 

As previously stated, I had to make changes to my Rebel wiring harness to use a generator, and also as previously mentioned, I used a 50's automotive text book to understand how everything in the system worked compared to alternator wiring. I have had no issues with not having enough electrical output from it, but my car has minimal electrical accesories. I like the looks of the generator a lot, but have had bad luck with regualtors sticking the contact points closed, allowing the battery to try to run the generator as a motor when the car is shut off. I am on my 3rd regulator with about 600 miles on my coupe, but the current one has lasted the longest of the bunch.
Since this thread is so old, I'm sure the OP probably made their choice long ago, but still interesting info here.

 

If all you are running is lights and not a ton of electrical demand there is not problem running a gennie. A ton of them were run out in the elements for decades no real problems.


If you decide you need a bumpin stereo or a monster fuel pump, bumpin stereo, 200 watt lights etc then you are going to need more amps than a gennie will put out but in a simple hot rod a generator will work just fine.

 

For anyone reading this thread that is running a generator or is going to, do yourself a favor and re-wrap the field coils! Not that hard to do and one of the most common reasons a generator quits working. The old varnish used to insulate the field coil from the case gets dried out over the years and flakes, melts, wears through or otherwise erodes leaving the field coil to short to the case and no more charge for your battery! Insulating varnish is still available (got mine at Grainger). A thin layer of fiberglass tape around the field coil also helps greatly!
Easiest way to remove them is to use a chisel for a screwdriver, use a press to put pressure on the chisel, and turn the chisel with a wrench. Haven't had a field coil screw strip yet doing it that way!
Johnny

 

I strongly disagree about closing threads. What makes this site so valuable is that the information is here and searchable. I was not concerned about this issue 9 years ago when the last post was made. Tonight the whole thing is new to me but some things have changed since then. Generator parts are a bit tougher to find and folks who know about them not as plentiful. Yet after learning what I can here without bothering any one if I have a question I can ask it and if someone wants to they can reply. People who get upset at old threads can ignore it. There is no required reading here you can skip any thread you like. Who knows someone might know something previous posters did not. Maybe something new is available. Most importantly info can be added here keeping a body of knowledge in one spot. What bothers me more is that too many people don't do searches and just start new threads about subjects that have been throughly covered.
Is there a source or brand of 12v generators that are smaller than the big GMs from the early '60s? Does HEI ignition pull too much juice for a generator. The last generator I removed was over header clearance not a problem of how it worked.

 

This is actually incorrect, a common misconception by people who should maybe know better. All of the current and voltage for the engine is (supposed to be) supplied by the generator/alternator. Technically speaking the only purpose for the battery is to start the engine. It acts as a "flywheel" to smooth out spikes and sags, too.

A generator system does have a cutout to prevent backfeed, so at times the electrical system is only running on the battery. They aren't very good in stop and go driving. I would expect they were not very good at all in night time, winter time stop and go type driving. Lights, heater running, wipers, radio ...

Need a good battery with lots of ampere hours under those conditions. In those days a top of the line battery had an 18 month warranty, they must have got nuked fast.

 

I have to wonder if you were just too freaking sober ! LOL.

 

Your in luck. Mopar started using Alternators in the fifties I believe.. They were so cool looking too.

 

1960, first year for alternators in Chrysler products.


Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.

 

The main thing generators have over alternators is they will charge with a completely dead battery where alternators do need residual voltage to start charging...

 

Didn't know any generators had regulators, That's why, reportedly, cars on road trips ran headlights in the daytime, to burn off the output.

 

Another plus for a generator is that you can push start a car with a dead battery if the generator wasn't the cause of the dead battery. Of course it has to be a stick or very old auto trans.

Most of the above is about Ford generators. Is there a similar field coil swap for GM generators? What is the smallest 12v GM generator? Is it a Delco thing more than brand? Is there any particular regulator that would be better for a hot rod with minimal a electric system?

 

I am considering this option also. How is it working for you?

 

I think the problem back then was the regulator setpoint was a little bit of a moving target. Battery charging voltage is also temperature dependent.

Someone might want the charge voltage set a skosh on the high side in the wintertime for in city stop and go driving. That works but then they need to take a highway road trip and start boiling the battery out.

 

Early generators had a "third brush" which was adjustable to change the charging rate, which indeed had to be adjusted for winter vs. summer driving, mostly highway driving etc.

Later generators, which are probably mostly of concern here, did away with the third brush and used a separate voltage regulator to automatically regulate the charging rate of the generator.

I'm not sure when they changed, probably around WWII.

 

The issue with faux 'generators' is they don't have enough room inside the case to increase output over a standard generator and if ran close to max output tend to overheat as (again) the case design doesn't lend itself to adequate cooling. Fix that and they no longer look like a generator. The sole 'improvement' IMO is better charging at idle. Keep the load down and they're fine...

 

Maybe a fan shroud on the generator fan?