I was discussing SBF and it was mentioned that putting 351 heads on a 302 was an acceptable upgrade? Don't know that much about the change ability between the SBF, so I am throwing it out there. Is there and where I can dig up some infor on what SBF heads go with what? Thanks for your help!
I was told that 289 heads on a 302 brings you up to 10:1 compression. I've also heard that 351 heads on a 302 aren't worth it unless you're really going bad ass. Both are hearsay though. I would cruise a couple of Mustang forums.
As far as I know the only difference between the 302 and 351c is deck hight and stroke, so the heads should interchange. A good book to pick up is:Ford Engine Parts Interchange. I don't know the authers name off hand but I got mine at Barnes & Noble and they stocked it.
IIRC 315W heads on a 302, 289, etc. yield slightly larger valves but kill your compression ratio. Overall, not worth it IMO. There's a book out there caled How to Rebuild the Small Block Ford that I got from Mac's. Its a bible on interchangability, casting #'s, and especially how to rebuild one.
I know that when the SBF was a newer engine it was said that the 351 4bbl Windsor heads were the best Windsor heads but that Cleveland heads were much better. So I snagged some 1969 4bbl 351 Windsor heads and both 2 and 4 bbl Cleveland heads. Anybody want to buy some heads cheap? I already sold the 4bbl Cleveland set.
289 heads on a 302 does up the comp, using 351 windsor heads give bigger valves but less comp and cleavland haeds makes it a Boss engine. To fit Cleavland heads a water or oil gallery has to be blocked, cant remember off hand, and a Boss manifold has to be used.
The number of available Windsor heads is enough to make your head hurt. The 351W heads were at one time thought to be the hot setup, but in 2009, there are lots of options that make more horsepower, and more sense (hp per dollar). If you are on a tight budget, use your stock heads.
351W heads up to '76 have bigger valves & 60.4 CC chambers. 302 has smaller chambers & valves,302-2v 63 cc 68-72, 58.2 73-76 302-4v 53.5. '77 & up both use the same casting with 69 cc chambrs
putting 351W heads on a 302 means drilling for bigger head bolts. Best bang for your buck (read, on the cheap) is GT40, or GT40P heads for a 302 from Ford Explorers...found in a junkyard.
Back before the late 80's, when the Fox bodied Mustang market took off, and no one made aftermarket heads for the SBF to speak of, the 351W heads were the way to go if you used a piston to make up for the bigger chamber. I bought a 289 off a guy that had it built up in the mid 80's and let it sit. It was a '65 289 block, '65 289 crank that had been indexed and the rod journals sized to a V6 Chevy journal, Howards aluminum rods that were stock length, TRW 12.7:1 pistons, '69 351w heads with roller rockers, Schneider solid roller cam. I bought a Offy 360 dual top tunnel ram, a pair of stock 660 center squirters and a set of HPC coated Super Comp headers and put it in my buddy's R-code '69 Mach I with his Jerico and McLeod soft-loc clutch, an aluminum flywheel, 5.67 gears in the read end with 9x30 slicks and it's first pass was at Tulsa at the Shelby Meet in I think '93, it went 12.51 bouncing all 4 tires off the ground at the line. Later we took the SSM bars off and put on a set of Morrison 32" adjustable ladder bars and their cheap adjustable coil over kit that uses regular shocks and was at FFW in I believe '94 in Ennis and it ran 11.09 @ 118. That December we ran it at the Snowbird Nationals in Ark City and it went 11.08 @ 119. Never got a 10 out of it, always had a couple year old slicks on it and was always N/A. I think they make more SBF aftermarket heads than SBC heads now.
I have a Ford 302 and bought a pair of 1967 --289 heads to get the higher compression . Some of the 351w heads in the 80's were nothing but 302 heads . What a waste ! If you have 351w heads it is worth drilling out the head bolt holes for the head swap ! That will wake that 302 up real nice !
I have the same book " How to Rebuild the Small Block Ford " & well worth the $$$$ ! Lots of Great Tips !
Don't drill out your block to put on 351W heads. Those heads are located by dowls, the 7/16" head bolts will hold fine. If you want to get fancy there were some special shouldered bolts that had the 1/2" shank with the 7/16" threaded portion. It is true that the early 351W heads gave you bigger valves but that was secondary to the larger intake port. Larger valves could be installed in any head but the port was harder to reproduce. It's true that the early 351W heads would lower your compression simply because the 302 has a smaller "swept" volume. The 351W chambers were sized to give a similar compression ratio of the 302's but on the larger displacement. Milling heads, thinner gaskets or slightly domed pistons are all ways to restore compression. I think the larger chambers breathe anyway. The easiest way to tell you have the early heads is to look at the rocker studs. If they are the press in studs you've got the early heads. If you have a "sled" type fulcrum with a 5/16" hold down bolt you got the later heads and there is NO advantage to using them.
Wow, Nice information! You guys scare me! You rattle this stuff off like it was nothing. I typed one sentence and got years of experience, banged knuckles and sweat. You guys are what the HAMB is about!! Thanks Again
Ford promoted using them in their Muncle Parts catalog circa 1971. They sold bolts that had built in washers if I remember right, and you had to use a different gasket on the heads. It was either a stock 302 or a stock 351 gasket, I don't remember witch it was. They recomended using different pistons, but I would think angle milling them would do the same thing.
arp makes the bolts to do the swap ! i thought about this swap a couple of months ago also , used to be the hot setup but after discussing it on here as everyone else stated it would kill the compression ratio ! and after the money you would have in redoing a set of 351w heads you may as well pick up a set of gt 40 heads with low miles or step up and go aftermarket and really wake it up !
I was guessing that was why the '69 4bbl Windsor heads were suspossed to be good. Smaller chambers. Maybe not. I could CC one if anybody cares.
There are special head bolts available for this application, so drilling the block is no longer required. You are correct about the later hp type heads. Actually, any 302 HO head produced from '87 on is a decent street head.
the E7TE heads are better than stock pre 87 yep. The ARP bolts are one way of putting 351W heads on as well. But for sake of simplicity I just wanted to point out that they didn't just swap over without some form of modification. If you want to discuss the SBF with some knowledgeable people. http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/forum55/ here's one place, and maybe even Stangnet/Corral Mustang guys. I should mention I'm no SBF expert, but am still learning.
Had a 64 Comet 289/271HP motor back in the early 70's. The car setup for drag street/drag turned 12.90's with slicks and 4:56 gears with longtube Hookers. I replaced the 289/271HP with 69 4 barrel 351 heads, screw in studs and guide plates, didn't mill the heads and used the Ford steel shim gaskets and turned 12.70's with slicks. One thing to keep in mind is that the ports on a 351 are larger (wider & taller) and eventually went to 2.02 intakes. One other thing to remember is that the 289 heads from 65 to 68 (early 68) had about 55cc's compared to the 68 and later which had 64cc's. Another thing to remember is that the 351W had rail type rockers, so if you got a set of stock 351W heads, you would have to mill .230 of the pedestals and then drill for 3/8 screw in studs..........if you want to run a solid cam (adjustable cam). With that said, there are so many different FPP heads and aftermarket heads on the market today that will make 2/3 the HP gain that the 351W heads do. As for the 351/302C heads will fit on a 289/302, but you had better have a real nasty motor to be able to handle the port size/combustion chamber/valves or it is totally a waste of money. We used to call those motors Clevors, when it was a 289/302 block with Cleveland heads. Here is a picture of the Comet. IMHO
This may be an old thread but I thought I'd bring it back instead of making a new one. I have a set of 1970 351w heads that were given to me. They are already reworked with a 3-angle valve job and the bumps have been ground out in the exhaust ports. I've already found the bolts to swap it on to my 1992 Tbird engine (it's a 5.0 HO) so what else will I need for this swap? I know a lot of people say it's better to just go after market but I wouldn't even be doing this if I didn't already have the heads ready to go. Thanks in advance!
You dont really need anything....except for the rocker arm setup. You need to have the 70 style rockers, or have screw in studs/guideplates put in and use adjustable rockers. BTW, do the pistons on that 92 tbird engine have valve reliefs? some of them were flat tops with no reliefs. Make sure you check piston to valve clearance.
The 351w heads from 1970 you have are the better ones but the early 289 heads gave the much better compression . Now with the hug cfm you have with the bigger heads to won't have the street torque most like . Those heads are for top end racing . The 289 heads are real good for the street torque and stop like drags ! My 289 heads have bigger valves , triple angle valve job , screw in studs , guide plates and roller rockers . I got mine very slightly used for $450 ! I got lucky on Craigs List ! Anyway the Cleavor engines were a sbf with Cleveland heads and you have to drill out the heads for the bigger head bolts . Was a great shot in the sbf's if you had a damn big cam ! Those were the good ole days back in the late 60's & early 70's ! Now you don't have to use your imagination anymore , you just buy what you need on-line ! RetroJim
Good score on the '69-70 351w heads. They do flow lots better, those were the only 2 years with big intake posts. But why exactly did Ford leave the tiny exhaust ports on them?
THE 64 - 67 289 heads all have 54 cc chambers with a 1.78 intake and a 1.54 exhuast valve and very small restrictive intake and exhuast ports . the head bolts are 7/16 the 69-70 heads have 58 cc chambers and have 1.84 intake and 1.56 exhuast valves the intake runners were much larger , probably the biggest on a windsor head the exhuast ports were still fairly restrictive though in 71-75 the chambers went up to 62 cc ports and valves the same . the 76 up valves dropped back to 1.78 1.54 and chamber size went up to about 68-69 cc , I built a set of 1977 heads to put on a 354 stroker and spent 3 weeks with a die grinder enlarging the ports and bowl areas to accept a 1.94 intake and a 1.60 exhuast valve and also unshrouded the valves in the chamber this increased the chambers to 72 cc which with flat tops and the piston 5 thousands in the hole it was a 9.5 to 1 compression ratio . this was built for an oval track race engine and worked great , the gt40p heads that are on the explorers are patterned after the 69/70 heads including valve sizes the only difference being the 69/70 had a 19 mm spark plug and the explorer having the 14 mm and of course the rocker types, a good set of world heads is easier though and you can buy a set ready to bolt on for what you will spend buiding a good set of stockers , as for the bolt issue , when i put the heads on the 302 block i called the Ford Motorspots tech line and was told to NOT redrill the block and tap to 1/2 inch as it would weaken it and loose some clamping force , leading to blown gaskets , I was also told at that time not to worry about the shoulders on the bolts that the bolts would self align . i put a set of arp 7/16 studs with hard washers and nuts . and never had a problem , that particular engines still racing after 4 years too and it screams sorry about getting long winded here
The engine identical to a '94 Mustang 5.0 HO. I currently have E7TE heads on it, just like a Mustang. This one is a Sport model. These heads are complete, including the rockers. So I'm good to go? I've already swapped in a 5 speed manual from a Super Coupe, so with these heads it should really be an improvement over the old automatic!
You might want to check this out:www.sbftech.com these guys will tell you like it is about the small block Ford,I suggest you do a lot of post reading before you ask a question,they tend to be blunt,so if your feelings get hurt easily,I warned you! They are hard core Ford.
I have a 94 mustang 5.0 in my 70 maverick, with 96 explorer heads which are stock with springs and roller rockers an F-cam and an edelbrock xf8 cross ram,a pair of 450 holley's, long tubes, T-5 5speed 4.11 dl 9in that runs 12.10s at 112mph and it has 130,000 miles on the short block, my car dropped .8 just putting the explorer heads on (over the E7Te's), but there is a difference in explorer heads, the 96 head is almost identical to an early windsor head and has 3 hash marks on the front of the head and the later 97-03 heads have a different plug angle that can be hard to find a header for and have 4 hash marks on the front of the head.
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