The Lack of Zinc in Today's Oil for Vintage Car Engines

At a recent car show, I talked to the owner of a 1951 Pontiac who explained how the lack of Zinc in todays engine oils actually harm older vintage engines. He said Zinc was added to oil back in the 1950's to lessen the wear and tear on engines especially during cold start ups, but the Government and industry has since phased out Zinc in oil because it decreases the lifespan of catalytic converters.

Apparently this guy still has a supply of older engine oil that still has the zinc additive in it, so it's not yet an issue for him.

I'd be interested in hearing what the experienced members of this board think about this.

Is this an overstated concern? Does anyone endorse a Zinc additive?

 

can you get brad penn oil in michigan? you can always add a 1/4 bottle of lucas additive or comp cams break-in oil every oil change. more to protect cam lobes and flat tappets than anything else. i service aircooled porsche 911s at my shop and lots of cams have pitting on the tips of the lobes now. really didn't have that problem before the oil got EPA'd.

 

This has been gone over in previous threads. What I get out of all of it is if you have an engine with heavy valve springs and a flat tappet cam you need the zinc otherwise the new oil is fine. I run a 50 Cad engine with a race cam and stock valve springs and use the new oil. I do add a can of STP with each oil change for viscosity and some zinc it may contain.

 

Has been discussed in many threads on many sites. The concensus seems to be that its a bad thing. Brad Penn racing oil still has the zinc. I"ve read that Valvoline racing oil also does. Probably others as well.

Use the forum search function, you'll find lots anout it.

 

valvoline makes oil with zinc, its more $$ than most standard oils. its their vr oil. but its worth it for the protection.

 

Shell Rotella T works well also...

 

Classic Delo 400.

 

So,... does the blue bottle STP oil treatment have zinc in it? ... If you find oil with the "APL service SL" on it, does it have zinc in it?
Is it that important to have zinc in oil in an older stock engine, like the 194 6 cyl I have in my Acadian?
I have seen different answers on this and other forums.

 

Rotella is easy to find or an addaitive. Not that big of a deal.

 

just go as far as your local honda shop motorcycle oil has zinc in it for the transmissions because they use a common engine tranny oil just about any high grade bike oil is what i would use

 

Yes, STP does have ZDDP additive in it.
But STP will not release 'how much' ZDDP is actually in it.
Does that help?
Jeff

 

If the oil you are using has an "SFI" rating on it, it has a very low amount of the "ZDDP" additive package. Rotella T and Delo 400 diesel oil used to have enough but has been mostly removed on the "low sulfer" cans. Check out crower.com to find an artical on their testing of the available additives to replace the zinc to protect your cam/lifters on any flat tappet engine. All newer engines either have roller lifters, roller rockers arms that ride on the camshafts or direct lifter buckets as in many OHC engines and do not need this additive. All cams in older engines will benefit in the long run with its use.

 

I guess getting supplies will become a problem one day soon.

 

www.ZDDPlus.com has the info you are looking for. Their product is sold here under Alliance vendors.

 

just add some Lucas

 

gotta agree with 61 Falcon. I have used the Valvoline VR oil in my 427 bbc race engine since we built it. I dropped a valve this summer and when we pulled the engine apart the cam, lifters and bearings were like new. The engine was in it's third year of being beaten like a rented mule. We ran the cam in with the Comp Cams breakin lube and then always ran the Valvoline--you can buy it for a fairly reasonable price at Advance Auto.
that's my $0.02

 

The biggest concern for me is the BREAKING-IN of engines.
The oil on the shelf will destroy a new/rebuilt flat tappet cam engine at start up. I know as I've had 4 or 5 fail (while doing nothing different for 30 years).
Then I heard what was happening,removing Zinc,Phosphorus,Phophates,etc. Most all the Diesel oils have zinc and phosphates in them because they still retain Flat Tappet Cams. My opinion is that most additives are so low as to trick you into feeling comfortable.
"Rotella" is the best for driving, but you MUST have a special oil at break-in.
I use "Royal Purple Break-In Oil,,,$9.oo a quart.
I smelled it and realized that it smelled EXACTLY like rear end grease,,so I've been adding a touch of rear end grease to all my other engines. "They" claim it's because all the engines today are roller engines and don't need it, in my opinion is another attack on the old American lifestyle. I'm not ranting here,,but have researched ALOT of things like this thats happening for over the last 9 years.
Not just Antique engines either,,think about all your other engines that smear moving parts,,tillers,lawn mowers,etc they're experiencing accelerated wear too if untreated.

 

I have been using STP since the mid 60's and dont seem to have any problems with the flat tappet cams so far.I do have roller cam motors and use it in them also. I dont have a clue how much Zink it (STP) contains but if there is no damage to date I assume its more than enough to keep the old classic engines going in the right dirrection.

 

"Racing" oil is exempt, so any 20W50 (considered racing oil) will have the necessary zinc. Diesel oils have been changed to comply with EPA requirements. All of the Brad Penn oils are considered racing oil and have the required zinc. They also sell a break in oil. I personally am not a big fan of additives and prefer to pour and go.

 

just use ZDDP plus , they are an alliance vender

Hy-per lube makes a zinc additive too , part # HPZ212....available at most O'Reilly Auto Parts stores

 

does anyone use the search function anymore?

This has been beat to death, over and over.... Just search zinc or zddp.

 

Tell me about it I ruined my cam after I last changed oil. I now add Zinc to all my oil in the rods.

Joe Gibbs Racing, makes an oil especially for hot hods and it has zinc, but it's a little pricey. Lucas sells a zinc additive, and I've also used a product called Hyperlube bought at NAPA. Somewhere, I think I read that the new Rotella does not have zinc... better check before you try that.

 

You read correctly....

Just a few of the threads that this has been beat in...

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=208646&highlight=zddp

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=138386&highlight=zddp

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=226881&highlight=zddp

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=235516&highlight=zddp

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=328604&highlight=zddp

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=346558&highlight=zddp

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=351140&highlight=zddp

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=185886&highlight=zddp

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=343217&highlight=zddp

 

Actually, you read incorrectly. Shell Rotella DOES contain ZDDP but their product descriptions don't report the amount of zinc & phosphorus. That doesn't mean they don't have any. The latest CJ-4 HDEOs just LIMITS phosphorus to a MAXIMUM of 1200 ppm (0.12%).

Even the most aggressive aftermarket flat tappet valve trains only need about 1100-1200 ppm of phosphorus (the antiwear component of ZDDP). See CJ-4/SM HDEO & Flat Tappet Valve Train Protection.

Any Heavy Duty Engine Oil (CI-4/SL & SJ-4/SM) will have enough phosphorus to protect flat tappet valve trains without having to add more ZDDP. Generally, the 15W-40 CI-4/SL oils have the most phosphorus (1200-1400 ppm) if you're really worried about having enough ZDDP. Excessive amounts of phosphorus (2000+ ppm) can lead to camshaft spalling. A good engine oil doesn't need you to reformulate it and certainly doesn't need Lucas Oil Stabilizer (see BITOG Lucas Report).

 

summit is now selling a house brand race oil with lots of zddp.

 

Amen Brother! Search before you ask!

 

I run Brad Penn in all of mine and my customers older cars. It's expensive, but cheap insurance. It's the same formula as Kendall before they got bought out.

 

This stuff has been heavily discussed all over...it is somewhat reminiscent over the unleaded panic in the 1970's. All of our engines were doomed!
Break in is one thing, running after that is different. There was a discussion in here in the last month in which some opinions from GM engineering were quoted...looked very interesting, but when I went back to read it I could not find it. Does anyone remember that posting or any details to feed the search function??

 

I have noticed that quite a bit of previously published info on the ZDDP issue has been removed from the internet. Also some of the critical numbers in information that remains, have been revised such as the ammount of ZDDP in certain oils. (.2 down to .14)

 

Maybe a lot of this is a repeat, but I'm all EARS. I sure don't wanna do (probably) the last important engine build of my life & wind up using anything that doesn't do the best possible job of prolonging engine life. NO disrespect meant to anyone or any opinions expressed. My dad always drove into my head as a kid that the FLUIDS are the life's blood of a motor, just like blood is to a body. Thanks to all for their input.