Hi, This is my first effort at this. Had quite a time finding where to post new messages. I guess they're called 'threads'. So much for nuts and bolts and cool clothes. Here's my problem. I can't find anyone who's shoved a 351C in a shoebox Ford to pick his brain for vital info - and the engine that's available isn't mine yet and is 100 miles away. I have a Macgyver's Mustang II frame clip to install and that's straight forward enough and I know some sort of a rear sump pan will be required - not much of an issue there, but the oil pump projects about 6 1/2" below the pan rail and my concern is the engine will sit too high. Has anybody out there done one of these? Might a Fox body Mustang conversion oil pan work? If I have to set the firewall back, I might as well install the 390 GT/C6 that is also available. Any facts, comments and opinions are invited with many thanks. Regards, Bob 30 Ford Coupe/w BB Dodge 50 Ford Custom Deluxe Coupe/w ????
Have put both a Blown 351C and c6 into a Mustang II, also a 460/ with a tunnelram with a AMX trans..........yes to the oil pan issue....we had build a hybrid tubular rear section with the front section grafted on with supports and gussets, re-enforced to absorb all the additional horses and torque............look around, do some searches.....they're parts out there for what you wan to do....... Just ley me say this......this type of build is really and truely about as close to a 'FunnyCar' or 'StreetFreak' build that you might want to get.............There is little to no room after putting the big engines in these things......we're talking the tires rubbing on the valvecovers kinda close......yes....a slight exaggeration....but not by much! Hey.....but thats the reasons why I build really crazy stuff like that though......someones gotta do it!!!!!! Ha!
I'm about to work on a shoebox with a 351C... but I'll be running a s10 front clip in it. Rear sump conversion too. I'd like to see what you find out on this...
I can't help you in terms of the engine mounts, unfortunately...no knowledge. The 351C does use SBF (302, etc.) engine mounts, if that's any help. The commonly available Fox conversion pans for the 351W & 302 will not work (in case you weren't aware of that). However, the Moroso 20530 & the Canton 15-720 pans are designed for the 351C & have the rear sump, or more accurately the dual sump. If you want to go low-buck, you can use the pans from a 351M or 400 powered truck or Bronco...I forget the exact years, but roughly '75-'82, F-150 & F-250. They have the dual sump. The vans usually have the "mid" sump which won't help. When you snag the pan, get the pickup (or get a new one; they are still available from Ford & the aftermarket); the pan-mounted dipstick, and the special main cap stud/nut that holds the pickup. Don't be tempted to just stick the pickup under the regular cap bolt....it's a quick way to suffer bearing problems. The special stud is still available too from Ford last time I checked. You'll have to use a small freeze plug to cap the old dipstick tube hole up front- no big deal. If memory serves, the oil pump is the same regardless of which type of pan you have (as opposed to the BBF).
they fit in. and like others said you have to use a 4X4 oil pan. if you go aftermarket moroso has one too. the stock 4X pans give you a little more working room the morosos are kinda close. this one has a mustang II front suspension. you can get it to fit without pushing the firewall back. this car in question already had that done, set up for a chevy. its close but it will fit with some measurments
I have a 351 rear sump oil pan, pick-up, and dip stick which I may not be needing, as I am thinking of using the rest of the Ranchero (trans and frame, anyway) that is connected to the 351 in my current project, so I may not need these parts after all. Let me know if you are interested.
As a subs***ute for the C6, a C4 will bolt up, and an AOD will bolt up. But I would rework either one to handle the extra HP and RPM's. Those should give ya a little more clearance in the tunnel anyway.
Awesome photo.....speaks volumes! I'll bear in mind about the Moroso pan. A stock 4x4 pan sounds like it might be the way to go. I was really concerned about interference with the x-member and didn't want to have to notch it. I can see by your photo that 351C Fox body conversion pan won't work. I understand from one of the other responders that the pickup mount requires a special main cap stud/nut to avoid bearing failure at that cap. See Homespun91's reply. The devil really is in the details. Thanks for the info - you guys are all awesome. Now if I can figure out how to post a photo, I'll put up my Model A for all to see.
Hey, Pre-k, Might just have to do that. Ventura's not that far away to ship to Canada. Lots of this old stuff is getting really scarce. Would you have the pickup mounting stud as well? Any photos.
Hey, Havi, Didn't know the AOD would bolt up. Mostly I know Mopar stuff. Engine I can get is a 351 Cobra Jet from a '71 Cougar XR7 c/w C6 and all the brackets and other trinkets. The AOD idea is attractive - someone might be interested in a small bellhousing C6, you never know. Thanks for your input. You guys are awesome
Hey, Homespun91 Good info on the bearing cap stud. Why do you suppose just using the cap bolt will cause bearing failure? Doesn't seem to make sense, but 'what do I know?' Thanks very much.
Hey, Chaddilac, Just read on. For me, all the information offered has been great, especially as regards the oil pump pickup mounting stud and plug. Thanks
Using the regular bolt tends to do several things: 1) it tends to unload the cap unevenly which could cause distortion; 2) since the pickup strap is not hardened, it galls, making the torque reading inaccurate; 3) the strap can break, which might leave the bolt loose, the cap loose, or chunks of strap wandering around creating havoc. Using the special stud makes the main cap more-or-less independent of the pickup mounting, as the stud is torqued down, and then the pickup strap slips onto the small diameter stud which is simply on top of the main stud & along for the ride. You can use either a deep socket or a crow's-foot to torque the main stud. A picture is worth 1000, etc.: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FMS-M-6675-A460/?image=large This is for a 460, but you get the idea. Unfortunately Ford does not offer this type of kit for the 351C/M/400, but there are often people selling "kits" on eBay, new & used. I personally know of a Ford BBF crate engine failure which was directly attributed to doing this (using the conventional bolt); it came with a front sump pan & was converted to a rear sump. It suffered a main bearing failure on the dyno and required a fair amount of time & money to fix. I will caution you that the FoMoCo rear sump pans are not known for their oil control...if you plan on flogging it unmercifully, especiallly where you will have abrupt deceleration (like after going through the lights on the drag strip)...either use a different pan, or weld a baffle (fitted with drainback holes) to keep oil from sloshing forward out of the sump. I could be mistaken, but it looks to me as if the pan in the picture is the exact one we're discussing...why won't it work for you? Or did you mean one of the aftermarket pans with the bigger sumps?
Lokar make a cable for the AOD to mate to a carb. You'll want to look into building an AOD, as they are prone to failure under higher HP. You'll also want to keep in mind the 351C's flexplate balance and such. I'm looking for a fox body 351C swap oil pan myself.
Hey, Havi, At the moment, I'm thinking I'll stick to the C6. My budget is very tight on this project. I can always swap it out later for an AOD if opportunity presents. I've come across several Fox body aftermarket conversion pans from Moroso, Milodon and, I think, Kevco. Thanks again. Cheers, B.
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