Just to start off, there are quite a few members here that do this stuff for a living. That like to pay their bills. No one wants to work for free. But contrary to popular belief they're not thieves or getting rich. For the large majority of us a "paint job" is not just shooting paint. It's stripping the car, doing the bodywork and metalwork. Sealing it. Priming it. blocking it. Then the shooting the paint and the associated sanding that goes with it. I just want to show some of the reasons why it ends up taking hundreds of hours to get a car right. These are just some of the things I've gotten to see on the last couple of cars we've done or are doing... How about the patch panel doesn't fit, wait that's because the quater has been hit pretty good and now we get to fix that so the patch panle will fit, not to mention fixing the rot in the tool tray as well.
this is the kind of stuff you run into.. and are expected to fix. Not a problem, it's just time. But time adds up... and quickly...
The sad thing about some of those pics is im sure somebody paid someone else to do a few of those repair jobs in the first place. Some people reley on filler way too much...
Brotha I can feel you, I do all of my own body work the old fachion way with hammers and dollies and that shit takes time patients and a good eye. I have been pounding out my DeSoto for two weeks now and still keep finding dents. My wife is amazed at how I can turn a beat down piece of metal into something sexy with just my hands. I told her these are only what I can see through the paint wait until we finally get her blasted to see what else is lurking.
Hey, some of that patchwork looks REAL good compared to some of the stuff I've gotten into! Yeah, it takes hours to explain to people why paint jobs can cost anywhere from 3000$ up to 10,000, when a guy on TV, or at Maaco, can shoot one is an hour or so!
Yep, got a couple right now that are redo's of someone else's work. Got a couple that are older work and now the cars are getting redone. I feel bad for the people. But I also have 3 guys that depend on me for a pay check at the end of the week, and I like to have a little left over to pay my bills. So I really don't think we're overpriced for the amount of time (labor) put into these jobs. That's also why I keep documentation of who did what and when they did it for each job. I also take lots of pics. I usually take a pic of before, during, and after something gets fixed.
Yeah, what am I thinking... how about concrete in the seat riser? yep... work=time yep, it astounds me. Color choice can really pump it up as well...
It's really a learning experience. I've lost my ass on a few that I stuck to my original estimate on. Sucks. I try and be really clear with the customer about what to expect and what will happen if we find those kind of surprises. Some people seem to think the materials are where the cost of a paint job are. Not so. Even using the best of the best labor will be the largest portion of the bill. Lets also not forget fixing hinges so you can actually align doors. Worrying about panel fitment. Especially on a light colored car. Man it goes on and on....
I recently had to turn a freind down for just the reasons you quoted. He asked me to paint his car, and I agreed to come look it over and see what's involved. According to him it just needs to be scuffed and painted, after all it was painted not too long ago. So I noticed the "pro" that painted it last time had painted right over some serious rust on the panel between the trunk and rear glass ('70 Nova). The same had been done near the lower corners of the windsheild. To top it off, the drivers rear quarter sounded an inch thick when I rapped it with my knuckles. I told him I would have to strip it to bare metal, repair what's underneath (my way only) and that I only use House of Kolor stuff, since I have had nothing but good luck with their product. Before I even left the driveway, he started whining about cost, (I charge $30 an hour and do it in my spare time) how long's it gonna take, I don't know if my wife will let me spend that much, can't we use something cheaper, I just wanna "driver-quality" job, blah, blah, blah-de-blah. I called him back a while later and told him I couldn't do it after all. My thinking is this: first of all, any shop he takes it to is gonna charge AT LEAST twice what I would. Second, I've seen other painters drop their quality just to make the customer happy and save him a few bucks. Know what happens to those guys? When it isn't show-quality, regardless of price, the customer is quick to point out every bit of orange-peel and every imperfection they can to anyone who'll listen. God forbid their wife get involved, they'll run your name into the ground at a moment's notice. BTW, the quarter panel you replaced looks perfect, very, very nice work. Rant over...
Nothing good is cheap.. for the most part. I have 21+ man-hours in changing an oil pan gasket. Sounds outrageous right, well no it isn't. To change the oil pan gasket the only method to do so was to pull the engine, it's a 428 FE from a 55 F100 I did 15 years ago. The oil pan has a rear sump and a custom windage tray. Pulling the pan off it would not clear the pickup or the flexplate/bell housing so options are limited. two $15.00 oil pan gaskets + 21 man hours = $1,605.00 But I am sure some general auto repair company could have done it for less, without screwing anything else up...
what's your point? or is it just a saint "fucking" louis thing? yep... I had to explain to a customer today that "we either do it right or we don't do it"... when he first talked to me about bringing in the car it was supposedly ready for paint, had been pulled to bare metal and primed. Not so. And couldn't understand where the 69 hours of labor so far were coming from. I showed him all the pics of the rot we fixed, the dents we fixed, rebuilding the door hinges so we could align the doors with the body, then the fenders with the doors. I personally would love to see a lot of guys do if for themselves. I know a few that have and will gladly pay to have someone else do it now.
Would you consider paint preparation as part of the paint job? 'Cause rust repair would fall under that clause in my book.
Yep, but when it comes in for a paint job I explain to them that we need to do any rust repair or metal work or bodywork in order for the paint job to last and live up to our reputation. It's a viscous thing really. If we dont' do it and a year from now something bubbles up the question that gets asked is "who painted your car?"
So if you are talking paint jobs, talk paint jobs. Not along with body work. What then makes a "PAINT JOB" so expensive? I guess a lot depends on what falls into the paint job work. I understand that. What I mean is after body work has been done correctly.
I agree. People think they know paint and are quick to point out all your flaws, but throw them a hammer and dolly and they don't know shit after all. When i was 15 i did my first paint job. Rushed it for a car show, took me about a week nonstop. It was definitely good for my first time though. My senior year i had a shop teacher who every time he looked at my car he said "he was getting seasick" Fuck that guy. It was Dark forest green. Yet he bragged of being a bodywork genius and one of the mustangs he did in WHITE looked like shit compared to mine. Anyway, back on subject, it does take a lot of time. Bodywork is a thankless proffession and everyone has an opinion. that's why i only do it for me anymore. I won't help my friends paint their cars.
great thread!! I had done all the work on my off topic project,the car had gone through a hail storm at one point, and on top of it, had to rebuild impossible to find pieces. I probably have 2000 hours in the car over a few years, and the primer isn't even blocked out yet. some of those hours were my wife helping though. she is pretty good with a hammer and dolly. I understand completely it's the right way or you don't do it. I tkae pride in my car and I couldn't do so if it was filled with filler, has some, but only for a very thin coat after metal work. Just keep doing your work your way and hats off to you for doing an honest job.
because the paint job depends on whats under it, most people aren't going to bring you a car ready for paint, they might think so, but usually it's not going to happen.
OH hell a little spray foam hack it down with a steak knife and skim coat with bondo. I once found tree bark as a backing for the filler.
I suppose there are a few variables that affect a good answer to your statement. First of all, basic painting is easy and actually takes less than a few hours. Base/clear make take 4 hrs total, if the car's assembled. So at my rate ($30/hr) that's $120, right? Add in maybe $1500 for materials and by your math, there's no reason that a car should cost more than about $1600 to paint. After all, the customer did good prep work, and it's already in primer! Sweet. That's suicide. Chances are about 99% that whoever did the prep work was at best, a hack. You wouldn't beleive some of the crap that passes for "done right" by guys. Priming over rust, using lacquer primer (or worse, spray cans in spots) filler a half-inch thick covering horrid welds, quarter panels simply laid over the rusty panel, then welded in place, the list goes on forever. If you paint over that, then it peels in three months, is it your paintwork, or the shitty prep? After all, a paint job is like a house, it's only as good as the foundation it's sitting on. In my garage, it's my-way-or-the-highway when it comes to the process I use, and any painter with half a brain will tell you the exact same thing. Shoot over shit bodywork and you may find yourself defending yourself in court, trying to explain how you were just trying to save the plaintiff money...
What do you consider to be part of a paint job? The better question is when you're paint cracks, who are you on the phone with? The guy who did the metalwork or the guy who painted it? When metalwork ends and filler/blocking begins, thats when a paint job starts in my book. It also includes color sanding/buffing and any finish work. The actual painting probably only takes about 10 hours on a 1 color.
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