Well here goes. I'm doing a persuasive research paper for my college English class. I've decided to write on the change needed in the state of PA regarding it's fender law. Weather from Pa or not, I'd appreciate any comments either for the change or against from fellow hamber out there. I need as much input for this research paper as possible. Thanks!!!!
You might want to post what the current law is and what you propose to change it to. That way we can itemize a for or against arguement.... If you mean relaxing the law, and allowing fenderless cars, I can't think of a single reason a State would want to do that unless it was proposed by a politician who was a rodder and wanted to run fenderless himself and had enough political pull to get it changed. Running fenderless looks bitchin and It's fun watching the wheels turn while driving down the highway but it's an entirely selfish entertainment. Fenderless vehicles traveling at 50 -90 mph throw up dirt, gravel rain water and mud and make driving hazardous or at least uncomfortable for anyone following them. So, what justification is there for raising rooster tails of rain and tossing gravel at following people's windshields other than some vague definition of personal freedom to do what ever we damn well please regardless of the consequences? I think those of us who live in States that already allow them or at least are lenient about fender law conformity are damn lucky. Yes, I have been running fenderless for close to a decade and can't figure out why I haven't even been stopped for it. Damn lucky I guess, my truck is twice the legal weight limit (1500#) for running without them. I noticed something too, the rooster tails are much higher at 20 mph that they are at 70. Must be the air flow catches the water better at the higher speed? (Boy, am I gonna catch hell for that one...)
Washington state has what's known as a fairweather fender law. A prewar car can run with no fenders only in good weather. Whether it will change I couldn't say but I do think it's a fair law.
Idaho also has the fair weather provision. You're supposed to pull over if it rains and stay off the gravel roads. I was born in Penn. It's one of those places where "They" know what's best for you. That's why I live out here.
Ok sorry I am going to cut and paste this time... here you go.. Direct from the Pennsylvania code pa code Subchapter K. STREET RODS, SPECIALLY CONSTRUCTED AND RECONSTRUCTED VEHICLES § 175.208. Body. (a) Condition of body. All items on the body shall be in safe operating condition as described in § § 175.80, 175.110, 175.130, 175.160, 175.190 and 175.220 (relating to inspection procedure) and this subchapter. (b) Fenders. A vehicle specified under this subchapter shall have fenders on all wheels which cover the entire tread width of a tire that comes in contact with the road surface. The tire tread circumference coverage shall be from at least 15 degrees front to at least 75 degrees rear of the vertical centerline at each wheel, measured from the center of wheel rotation. (c) Hoodstreet rods only. A street rod is required to have a hood which covers the top of the entire engine compartment. Street rod engine compartment sides may remain open. (d) Doors. A door shall be installed for any location from which a refuse truck is to be operated. If the vehicle is equipped with dual controls, a door shall be installed at each control position. ok so fenders 15 degrees forward of a vertical centerline from the center of the wheel and 75 degrees aft of said centerline.. thats what the statute states.. I have no idea what section D indicates Obviously the problem I have with the pa fender law is that less than 50 miles south from my house, in good old Maryland, a street rod can operate without fenders at all.. Why the hell did I leave that state again? Oh yeah for a better paying JOB.. What makes this statute even more asinine is that PA just repealed the helmet law for motorcycles and increased the penalty for driving a car without a seatbelt.. but I digress..
Don't forget that PA has a picture of a fenderless and hoodless T bucket on their Street Rod tag. Clark
The fender law sucks...Last time I was pulled over was because I had regular tags and not streetrod tags. I pay more for tags and insurance and ask the cop if I had streetrod tags would it make a difference. He didn't know and all he did know was I needed fenders. Another cop pulled me over and the same thing only he said the exhaust needed to be behind the back wheels also. Both cops were cool no tickets not even a warning just a hassle. In Maryland I drove my 40 Chevy coupe with no back shocks and sitting on a milk crate just to get it home but it was still tagged and legal. They have no inspection on classic cars just tag them.
[ QUOTE ] Don't forget that PA has a picture of a fenderless and hoodless T bucket on their Street Rod tag. Clark [/ QUOTE ]Thats classic PennDot,do as I say,not as I do!!
Keep in mind PA still has a law on its books that a car approaching an oncoming horse and buggy must pull to the side of the road, stop the engine. PA is the quintessential example of over-bureaucratization. And to draw logic from any of its many arms of government can only lead to assured madness.
Call me stupid, but do cars weighing less than 1500 lbs. stop throwing rooster tails in the rain and gravel when it's dry?
I would like to know what the states reason is to require you to run fenders on a "streetrod". Also the law mandating that the hood cover the entire top of engine makes no sense since you can run without hood sides. What gives???
Didn't Spike get pulled over for that on the way home from the Jalopy Showdown . I thought they were talking about only allowing certain years to run fenderless. I think they should have a fair weather law, that would make alot of people happy. later plmczy
I'm glad I live in Michigan. I drive my T bucket pretty friggin' hard (that's why it's broke quite often) and in all kinds of weather. It's a ton of fun (not quite a ton, really) and it looks killer! If I ever have to put fenders on it, it'll go up for sale and I'll build something else. BTW...is it Tennessee that has a law that makes it illegal to carry an ice-cream cone in one's back pocket? What about the front pocket? Or maybe a shirt pocket? Holy crap, I've gone and confused myself good this time!!
Hey coupedevil, I found a pretty cool website that contains a lot of information regarding PA automotive/street rod laws, stragegies for avoiding rejections, PennDOT contacts, etc. It looks like it's updated pretty regularly. http://www.pavehiclenews.com They have a link to the PENNDOT Streetrod Taskforce Committee Members. If you want to change the laws here, you might want to contact some of these people. Since I just moved here from NH, which has very relaxed laws, I may do the same.
Can you get pulled over for driving fenderless in a state with these laws if your state of registration allows it??? Anyone know if Ohio has the same law as Pennsy???
hey duders i was just about to post that pavehiclenews website. i was confused about many of these laws just as you guys are so i emailed the dude that runs it. he gave me some info on things like fenders, bumpers, gas tank location, etc... anyways my point is, he is currently working on trying to get rid of the pa fender law. he said they hope to have it gone by next year sometime. im sure its a long shot..but at least someone is trying to help. i could deal with all the other dumb laws if i didnt have to run fenders. oh yea..one more thing. i saw in the new issue of ol skool rodz, in the letters section, a PA rod without fenders. the guy said he owns the Pennsylvania hot rod company. anybody know of them? or why he didn't have fenders on his pa rod? i tried to find a website without success.
Yes, I do believe that upon entering the state you would need to apply fenders. Kinda like the helmet law. I cross into MD and wham-bam better put that lid on.
Thanks for all the responses. Our coupe is fendeless and hoodless. My husband formely lived in Ontario Canada and the 32 was legal there for 20 some years. They also have the fair weather law. He had been driving down here with it for years coming to shows all over the US. I believe if a vehicle is legally registered in another state or country, an officer in PA can not ticket you for no fenders or hood. He was pulled over in York Pa one year and the cop let him go because he was from Ontario. I'm currently in contact with Mike Kramer who runs the Pa website and I also have contacted Governor Rendell. I questioned him on this change. Heck he allows cyclists the no helmet law why not the rodders a no fender law. To my surprise I got a personal phone call at my home from a woman from Penn Dot explaining that they are currently looking at many changes in the laws and if I have any further questions to call her. I also commented to her that the overzealous PA laws cost the state money. Many friends from other states will never move here. Why should they have to spend thousands of dollars to make a legal car, in just about everystate but PA, legal here. Hopefully some of these laws will be changed. All the revenue that is brought into this state with events like York and the many smaller shows should show them the interest. Any addition comment you hambers might have, keep them coming. I am doing a pro, con type paper for the change. Thanks again
coupedevil.. thanks for contacting the govenor.. i'd love to also speak with this individual at the PADOT thanks sawzall
Good luck and remember in politics it's the squeaky wheel that gets the greese. Here in Idaho, we set up the USRI to keep tabs on what's happening with the legislature in Boise and to lobby for our side of things when automobile legislation comes up. It's now gotten to the point where our guys are actually respected and listened to when new laws come up, and we've put in a bunch of changes to make laws more rodder friendly. Having someone right there to give our point of view before the laws are passed seems to make more sense than just bitching about them later when they go into effect. Works for us anyway. Best 5 bucks I spend every year.
[ QUOTE ] I'm currently in contact with Mike Kramer who runs the Pa website and I also have contacted Governor Rendell. I questioned him on this change. [/ QUOTE ] Nice work, coupedevil.
Ohio is a fenderless state. If you live in a fenderless state and drive to a fendered one thay can not ticket you. Another example is PA has one license plate and OH is a state that requires two. They can not give a PA resident a ticket for only having one plate when they are in OH.
I don't know how or why it happened but Mass. passed a fenderless law about 5 years ago. I'd like to buy the guys who got the law changed a beer. Here's the wording:
[ QUOTE ] Ohio is a fenderless state. If you live in a fenderless state and drive to a fendered one thay can not ticket you. Another example is PA has one license plate and OH is a state that requires two. They can not give a PA resident a ticket for only having one plate when they are in OH. [/ QUOTE ] I don't know about that. A couple of years ago during the Bloomsburg 4WD Summer Nats, the State police were stopping all the trucks AT THE GATE, measuring the bumpers, and if they didn't meet the state law they were ticketed. Now on the other hand there was that early thirties coupe, the one in bare steel running the cad motor, they were at the Americruise and it looked like they were never harrassed. The card on their window said they was from PA, but the car was liscenced in Ohio. later plmczy
[ QUOTE ] I don't know how or why it happened but Mass. passed a fenderless law about 5 years ago. [/ QUOTE ] Probably so Ted Kennedy wouldn't have to spend so much at the body shop after driving home from the partys. Did they vote against it before they voted for it? Sorry, couldn't help myself.
The only problem if they do make a fenderless law is you will probly have to have a street rod tag and i refuse to have one. They require a reconstructed title with them and there are more hoops to jump through to get one than a circus animal sees in his life! Not me!! I'll get MD plates Clark
Here's a question, how do you know if it's legal to build a fenderless car. I live in NY and just built my car without them. I have traveled all over the east coast many times to Pa, and never been stopped because of fenders. I have always wondered about the fender law but each year inspection stations around me the just hand me a sticker and say nice rod. But I have often wondered what would happen if a tropper is pissed off, could he have the vehicle towed or dragged off the road. Anybody know.
[ QUOTE ] The only problem if they do make a fenderless law is you will probly have to have a street rod tag and i refuse to have one. They require a reconstructed title with them and there are more hoops to jump through to get one than a circus animal sees in his life! Not me!! I'll get MD plates Clark [/ QUOTE ] exactly.. the worst part is that RODDERS initiated the street rod plate in PA.. a fellow named Sherm Smith had a great deal to do with getting the plates issued.. however as time progressed legistlators who HATE street rods (and modified cars altogether) decided to do everything and anything they could to slow the process of applying for street rod tags.. lets face it PA STREET ROD LAWS are unfair and need to be changed.. sawzall
Oldspeed, State cops can do anything they want to but I've always felt that if I drove my car with in the boundries of the law,they'd leave me alone. I was stopped once by a Mass. state cop for my blue dots...He just wanted a closer look at the car.He said"We've got bad guys to catch, we don't have time for you hotrodders!!" I wish I had had the balls to do a burn out when I pulled away !!! If you read my attachment about the Mass. law,it says that if you don't run fenders you need mud flaps of some sort so the tires won't throw roostertails,but I have never seen a fenderless rod with them. Sawzall: in Mass. I found an insurance agency that doesn't require me to have antique plates so I have the best of both worlds,cheap insurance and cheap plates with my milage and use restriction imposed by the insurance not the state.
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