I know everyone says to stick to one supplier or one painting systems, but how do you know if products from different companies will work well together? For example. How do I know if a primer I have will work with the paint I want... and then will it work with a clear from a different manufacturer? Does everybody use PPG or HOK from begging to end? Do you guys mix & match?
It is a gamble. Some doesn't play well with others stuff. I have had some ugly results mixing brands in the past. I have had good luck using HOK base and candy with Diamont (RM) clear.
It's not worth the risk to mix brands, because it's so damn time consuming and expensive to re-do a paint-job. If you're doing it on small insignificant parts, well maybe that's not such a big deal, if you can deal with the consequences of something reacting. As far as answers to which brands work with each other, that's a tough question. You probably wouldn't know for sure unless you talked to someone that had tried the same combo. Gary
a general rule...........use your fav primer with all its reccomended additives use anyones compatible paint with its reccomended additives anyones clear will go over the top, but use the caylist for that clear only. you can usulally use anybodys urethane reducer in the clear, but i dont officially reccomend that. basically use the matching additives for each step in the process keep in mind this is just my expierience , and i'd reccomend that you stay with one system, but ive gotten away with these tricks over the years on quickys and cheapys.. i wouldnt go to the trouble to prep a car for an expensive job and skimp on any of the materials though skull
Good info. I have been reading every thread I can find on painting and prepping. The one constant seems to be that if you ask a question you get 20 different answers... so that must mean that everyone is using a differnent system and more likley than not.. using different combinations of product. Any more info????
Different primer/ paint no prob. Different color/clear no problem as long as their in the same family. For example i use hok religiously but i never use their clear. Knowing you goozgaz your probly doin something custom? You might want to check out coast airbrush over in aaheim.
I've used a Matrix cata##### with some clear that had it's label off the can....nobody knew what it was. It worked fine. I was painting a bar stool racer so I didn't care that much. I'm pretty much sold on Matrix stuff......kind of a mid priced system, but it seems to perform well.
This is were I started to sound really supid. You say "diff. primer/paint no problem" ... then say .... "diff color/clear no problem". Paint and color are the same thing right. (i feel stupidererer just typing that) So why don't you use HOK clear?
HOK, cool colors, real user friedly urathane systems (even their candys and pearls are no brainers). Once again if your gonna try this you need to go to http://www.coastairbrush.com/ the guys their will spend all day eduacating a beginer. Also their shop is like a kustom kulture art show!!!!!
sorry GOOZGAZ I misread your question HOK clear??? I dont know?? theres others I prefer but their not exactly legal in CA but its sold at Coast
I can't believe there are so many chemists on this board. I was a rep. for a paint co. for 30 years. NEVER MIX BRANDS. if it blows up it's on you. I took care of shops that were painting in their house garages because they were using my brand 100%. If they used several different brands they got to eat it, and let me tell you paint is not tasty. Use the top of the line or bottom of the line just use the same one. Don
The safe thing to do is use one complete system all the way through. Two main reasons.....first- they are designed to work as a unit, second- if you have a problem you can call tech support of the one company. If you mixed brands, everybody can point the finger at the other manufacturer, it kind of let's everyone off the hook but you. If you INSIST on mixing brands...... verify with at least 2 well established painters that have done exactly what you want to do. I remember the first time I used that trick paint that originally came on '90 something mustang, that changed colors, that cost about 4K per gallon. The customer came in with just enough to basically do his lettering job, I had nothing to practice with.... I called every friend/customer in a body shop, every painter I knew, every supplier and the manufacturer of the paint to get all the info I could, and follow what the majority said to do. It wound up being very easy to use, but at a price of 4K per gallon.... mistakes would get costly in a hurry. Good luck..............
Well, you can't know until you do it, or if someone else has already done it with the same chemicals you have And I beg to ask---why would you want to mix chemicals, unless it's to save money? If you don't HAVE to, then don't I mean, I'm gonna guess too that it's some kind of kustom thing, and a lot of time will be spent on it, and you're gonna pour your heart into it.....it's not a good idea if the final results matter Like Don said, you mix it up --you're on your own when/if it fails. Technically, yes(98%), you can use brand x clear over brand y paint over brand z primer. And follow the instructions!!!!!!!!! Just don't mix brand x catalyst with brand Y clear and you'll likely be fine(although you CAN with some products if you know chemistry). My shop goes PPG all the way, but I HAVE used HOK colors(catalyzed candy) in between without fail. And ONCE I did Nason clear over PPG base(won't do THAT again) but it worked out in the end.
Good stuff fellas.. I was always the kid who did the right thing but still had to ask WHY I couldn't do the wrong thing. I vow that as my painting career evolves, that I will not use this information to grow so powerful that the very mention of Goozgaz El Pintor (the painter) will cause you to quiver, shake, ad run to pull down your paint shops roll-up doors. .... On the other hand. You all are now responsible for the ungodly creations that I plan to unleash. Thanks again for all the info.
I do mostly custom paint, and I consider paint and primer to be separate en***ies. So over any brand sanded primer, any paint system will work. I keep paint to one family, though sometimes I will use HOK clear over Dupont basecoats, esp. if I use HOK paints for graphics on a Dupont base color. When using HOK paints, I always use their clear, though...it used the same catalyst as the candies, so the paint is of one chemical formula all the way through.
same here,i love hok but the clear does ****,most companies will warranty the products if you use say ppg or valspar all the way from primer to clear in case theres a problem,but notta if you ****tail,the blame game will start,,,,,,,,,
Damn, and jus' when I thought it was safe to come back outside! S****y Devils C.C. " Meanwhyle, back aboard The Tainted Pork "
Its a trial and error sort of thing unless someone tells you it will work because they have done it. I only use HOK primers and usually topcoat with either PPG or HOK. Sometimes I use PPG bases, HOK effects and then come back with PPG clear. Other times its HOK clear. It all depends on what the next step is. The one golden rule is to always use the right additives with each step. Test panels, test panels, test panels...
GOOZGAZ, your in Hell Monte Im in ****tier, if you need help or guidence give me a holla. I posted on another body and paint post here on the HAMB that my daddy taught me everything he knew about custom paint and then I had to learn the right way to do things. Theres the right way, the wrong way and then my way? Ive been doin custom paint and airbrush for many a year now. Let me know, Lance
its cool that the paint store is recommending u swap around brands. it will be real cool when u go for warranty and they say..NO! lol
i mix and match all the time to save a buck. but im also aware of the consequences. i do nothing but custom so i push limits of products all the time.
Just my two cents, My dad has been a paint chemist for much of his working life, he is now a consultant for coatings industry r&d departments. He says All ways use the one brand heres why: In the unlikely event that you happen to buy products that don't work together OR there is simply a product fault that has nothing to do with product compatability. Both brands will have a warrantee clause stating that unless the there products were applied to their recommendations (eg. all their product system must be used) any warrantee is null and void. It happens alot two companies blame each others products and the end user gets nothing even if they have purchased genuinely defective product. Therefore use one system if some thing goes wrong you MAY actually get some help
Hey, Over the years I've had some very good experiences with paint brand reps, and some very bad ones, as well. When ever a problem goes down with a paint product, first thing they wanna see is the purchase invoice! If you have an incomplete purchase order, one not listing all the products necessary for shooting their line of paint, good luck getting the time of day outa them, much less replacement of material! I have never been repayed for labor on a job, from a paint rep's company, when their product was substandard, only replacement costs of material. S****y Devils C.C. " Meanwhyle, back aboard The Tainted Pork"
There's some good info in this thread, but some of it is incomplete and could really confuse a beginner. It takes a lot of years to learn paint and systems and the paint companies are constantly changing products to keep up with new technology and customer demands. Just when you think you have it figured out--something is new and different. Most new GOOD QUALITY "CATALIZED" PRIMERS will be compatible under MOST GOOD QUALITY "CATALIZED" PAINT SYSTEMS. OK--the key thing here is "CATALIZED" usually means with a hardner, to crosslink the resin in the primer. This type of primer with good solid material for a filler and a good quality resin/binder and hardner/catalyst, will dry and cure producing a film that should not absorb solvents from the paint applied on top. If the solvents from the paint won't soak into the primer, it (the paint) is only going to stick to the primer with mechanical adhesion. This means the primer has to be sanded and clean in order for the paint to stick. In most systems, it is not going to stick by chemical interaction between the paint and primer or the solvents melting them together as in a lacquer paint type system where both primer and paint can still be disolved with thinner. Yeah--this is basic for us experienced painters, but there will be beginners wanting to learn about stuff by reading the posts in this thread--and with the 20 or so answers that come up, they will be lost as to what is actually meant in the information given by the 20 different people. If you use a primer that will absorb solvent from the topcoat paint film, sometime later that solvent will want to escape and evaporate out of the film. If the paint film has a hardner and the resin crosslinks, the underlying solvent can't come out and will be trapped in between the layers of paint and primer. This is usually the main cause for peeling, loss of gloss and blistering in applying paint over a primer that is not compatible or made for the paint system. How can you tell if a primer is going to hold back solvents from soaking in? After it is cured and sanded, wipe it with a rag with some lacquer thinner or urethane reducer, and see if it will disolve the primer readily. You don't have to scrub it for 10 minutes, just a slow sliding wipe will let you know if it will disolve on the rag. A small amount may be just sanding residue, but lots of primer color on the rag means it will soak solvent from the paint. You guys that really like DP epoxy might not want to try this. DP epoxy does, however, work very well as a "tie" coat or bonding sealer for use nonsanding between a good catalyzed primer and a good catalyzed paint system. Most knowledgeable paint reps will be able to tell you if your compe***ive primer system product will work under the paint they sell. They might reccommend a sealer for enhansing the performance of the marriage of 2 competetive product lines. Bottom line is, they are selling paint and hope that if they help you, next time you will buy the whole system from them. There is a lot more to this than what I posted, but it's a start. overspray
The Jalopy Journal
