Hot rod did an article on the chevy sixes awhile ago. They made 250 to 300 or so hp but they were electronic fuel injected also had the lump port and Kirbys alloy heads. If they have to stick with flat tops and stock heads it might not be that big of an advantage other than finding parts and tranny selection? I've never messed with one much other than to keep it runnung. Enjoy your weekend Dusty
Yes I belive it was joy of six. They were more less street engines. Made good power but not 350 hp? I think it was around 290 300 hp and about the same torque. It also had some good info on roller cams and other goodies but like I said I don't see alot of advantage of them over what the top guys are running now other than parts are avaliable and easy to find. I would rather do it the hard way but thats just me. Besides flatheads look cooler Just my take on the subject Dusty
Here's some information on the 292 from Leo Santucci's book: 1. Stock rods with ARP-type bolts should only be used for street, mild street/strip applications. Aluminum rods, are available, but costly. 2. Flat top pistons coupled with an 80cc combustion chamber head can yield up to 10.3 to 1 compression ratio. With a 194 CID head having 60cc chambers a compression ratio up to 12.4 to 1 is achievable. 3. The stock head with stock valves, no porting flows, Intake 169CFM, Exhaust 122CFM. 4. A ported head without lump ports, but with 1.94" intake valves and 1.60 exhaust valves flows, Intake 217CFM, Exhaust 175CFM. 5. A practical street level limit on gasoline is about 1.1 H.P./cu.in. or 332 H.P. for a .060" over 292. 6. In my planning for a drag race 292, I found forged pistons for about $100/ each and aluminum rods for about the same price. This was for a Fiat Altered. Ok, you dyno guys and engine specialists, what kind of drag strip horsepower can be achieved with a 292 in SDRA trim? Does this engine become the new King of the Hill???
Alright...that did it. This is getting out of hand. It's time for Obama to appoint a Horsepower Czar.
The 292 in our Allis tractor is probably running in the 330 hp range. Stock rods with appropriate treatment, Ross flattops, ported stock head, triple Holley/Motorcraft carbs. 280* duration Clifford hydraulic camshaft. The block was decked to a zero clearance, best I remember its running 11.5:1 compression. The head does have the 1.94 intakes with 1.60 exhausts and roller topend. Come and get it, the whole tractor is for sale. $5000.00, that's the cost of the engine at that level. All the little bases have been covered. Yeah, its the new "King of the Hill". I don't know anything about 300 Fords, they could possibly be the new "King". Maybe somebody with experiance with the Blue Oval with chime in. Hud
I'm a chevy guy but I still think the older engines have a fighting chance with the newer makes. The chevies are lighter I'm sure but 330 to 350 hp is not a king of the hill number. Besides who races dynos anyway?? It's the total combo that makes a car fast or not. I'm sure we all have seen the car with the big motor loud pipes and such not be all the hype. Or I might be full of shit? Dusty P.S. why not add some weight to new motors?
Naw man, you ain't full of shit. Its gonna be interesting to see the result this spring. This is gonna make us old iron lovers work much harder, which is a good thing. Hud
I'm not speaking for or against the SDRA engine rule. It won't affect me stuck way up here on the tundra. Was just pointing out that the 292 makes some decent horsepower pretty easily. Certainly, the combination is important as is the driver so horsepower alone won't get the win. Even though I have 2 292's in the corner, the Slant ain't coming out of the car, because I'm curious to see how well it can be made to perform. If one engine proves to dominate to the point where guys either want to quit or everyone decides to run the same engine, then a method of handicapping seems to make sense. A weight penalty, like the Pro Stock motorcycles use, and esfoder suggests, sounds reasonable.
Everyone knows that alittle weight put in the wrong place makes a huge difference in car launching and general handling. And with the 6" hard ass tire rule it would do the job I'm sure. Hell even a weight to cubic inch would be fun. give the little engines a fighting chance. Dusty P.S. Not trying to start anything just thinking out loud. But on the flip side more rules does funnel the cars into a common design.
.As a long time engine builder and no recollection of Flatty's that I ran 55+years ago I am doing a flatty with the usual parts and what ever it runs I will be happy. If my quest was to be king of the hill I would select another avenue of competition. I am not worrying about who or what is faster but rather how we did it back then in the early 50's since I thought this is what the HA/GR is about. An original 50 built digger with small tires and a flatty is how it started and how I will approach this competition. After watching the flattys run at Temple Academy last week I am fired up and ready for some trips down the track next season
You're right Ray. Re-creating what they did in the early '50's (with 1950's parts) is what HA/GR is all about. An altered, with a big screaming Ford or Chevy six, PG, trans-brake, slicks, maybe a Fiat body, full cage, wheelie bar, etc, could be very cool. Very cool, but not an HA/GR. Build a '60's version (with 1960's parts), set a 10.0 index, put real race tires on it and have a new level of fun. Just don't call it an HA/GR.
I think a 300 Ford could be built cheaply and reliably to compete. Exhibit A: my roadster P/U It has flat top pistons, full street-legal equipment (except windshield and wipers) and 2.47:1 gears!! It weighs 2050 lbs w/ 70 lbs ballast and has run 11.61 @ 118 on 10.5 slicks. With gearing like that I don't think a 6" tire would slow it down a bit as it doesn't turn a tire at all. Heck, it may run faster. Most importantly, it has over 1200 passes on the short block with no maintenance except oil changes. What fun! PS: Pay no attention to the blue 147 mph Ford six altered in my non HAMB friendly avatar
Uh yeah, I figured you'd be around somewhere. Aren't you the 300 Ford Six tech advisor for the Inliners now? Does this answer some of you guy's questions? Hud
Yes, I lurk over here too. I love this site. As Hudsonator alluded to here are some useful websites for inline enthusiasts: www.fordsix.com www.inliners.org
I ran some experimental 300 Ford 6's on circle track and did a lot of weird machine work and came up with an ultimate combination. The torque is unbelievable and maintaince was average for the style of racing at that time. I believe that kind of power would be a little much in a 50's digger but it all depends on how fast you want to go with the modern power plants. I am after a good cheap time but doing a flatty I found "Cheap" isn't in the book. However I believe with the good parts it should survive for many years and that's the quest along with some old time type racing. At our age we can all go faster with junk yard late model power plants versus slower flatty hot rod motors but what is accomplished? I really think the HA/GR is going to be one fine set of cars if we just keep in mind its the 50's and do it like it was then. After witnessing several flattys at Temple Academy smoking the RR tire all the way down rekindled the old feeling and memories again and if my digger will do it like that I have accomplished my goal.
I used to race a flathead in the 50's and they can be made to perform great. The key with a flathead is go big on cubic inches. You need close to 300 inches. That is a 3/8 by 3/8 which means you increase the bore and the stroke. An Isky 400 Jr cam or Potvin Eliminator cam will get you the horsepower needed. It is important to go light weight pistons and a girdle on the mains. These engines are light and a light dragster is the key. Gene's Brake Shop broke 150 mph in 1957 on Nitro. I think that most of the flatheads running in this class are small cubic inch flatheads. With someone using a Mercury crank you get 1/4 stroke but that isn't enough. Flatheads are an exspenive way to go even more exspensive than a GMC. Nobody raced junkyard engines in th 50's and were competitive. If we don't get more people running we will die. You can build a car for a couple of thousand dollars and run it down the track but if you win it will be a fluke like a red light or something. I would love to stay the same but if it takes something to get more cars then I'll listen but if all this is over the GMC being the dominate engine and someone wants to go modern just to beat it, then why did I research and pay lots of money to build a GMC to be sandbagged later. I tried to play by the rules and I want to grow into a large contingent of cars but not at the cost of ruining the class. Racing the SDRA this year was great but we kind of petered out at the last. I committed to racing every race and towed the dragster over 6000 miles and stayed in motels so it was a big exspense. I love the adrenaline rush when that GMC starts pulling on the top end, it is like drinking 50 cups of coffee. I think that the 292's and 300's will do the same so I hope that I can take older technology and still be competitive. We'll see. Roy
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