Falcon Hotrods? - Subframe & conversion tips Please.

I found a hot hittin' 302 motor and am wanting a falcon. I have looked at a few; some fellow HAMBers have v6 cars for sale.

I am not sure what I am getting into, and was hoping someone has "been there-done that."

Does anyone have a falcon that has the conversion w/302 or 351w possibly?

I am worried about the subframe tubing and floorboard sheet metal. What is the norm for supporting the conversion, and what are the major concerns?

I have been looking for a v8 car, but have only been able to find v6's. A lot of people have the v6's laying around with miscellaneous parts for the conversion, but they never finished it all.

It just seems that it would be easier to add a 302 to a v8 car. Is it easier? Should I not even worry about the car being a v6? Wouldn't there be heavier sheet metal on a v8 car? - shock towers and such?

Thanks in advance, I appreciate the help.

I should mention that I like the 63/64 but if the conversion is easier in a diff year I am all ears

 

Any 64-66 Mustang V8 parts should fit to put your V8 in.Also,I think Fatman Fabrications makes a front suspension conversion for it.

 

the inline six cars have smaller front end components, the earlier falcons also have 4 lug wheels... maybe find two cars, one POS V8 set up to donate the front end and other misc parts and "the ride" with the minimal body work to be done.. the 6 cars can usually be gotten cheap as they are grossly underpowered by modern drivers..

 

no difference except stuff like motor mounts and steering linkage, possibly springs. should be a pretty easy sway.

are these "v6" falcons you speak of the elusive "inline v6" motors?

i'm doing a 61 ranch wagon right now, pretty basic, i upgraded to a larger 250 six, adapted it to a t-5 tranny, driveshaft from a fairmont, 8" rear from a maverick, and matching disc brake spindles up front from the maverick. use new aftermarket control arms from mustang vendors to adapt the brakes. and like mentioned above, most mustang parts work, i'm adding kyb shocks and chunky sway bars from a mustang as well.

the car is for my girlfriend, she didn't want a gasser, or else the formula woulda been hack off the front subframe, fab up a 2x3 subframe, econoline axle, big assed v-8 and sky high.

 

yeah like fatdad said, i forgot the brakes/rear axle are lighter, not that you'd keep either stock axle.

to me it comes down to the roundbodies are nearly impossible to find v-8's in already, and the later falcons, more likely to have 8's in em are not as good looking.

 

Yup, I have found 4 v6 cars at or under $1000 - all come with a variance of 5 lug and disc brake conversion parts.

I am cautious because so many people have started the conversion and just stopped. It's almost like they discovered that they should have bought a v8 car and are trying to get rid of the v6 car.

I would like to change a v8 car to disc brakes anyways, and also add a nine in rear.

So, besides the front end (from steering box and collum all the way to spindles) , what should I be concerned with?

Are the subframes in a v6 and v8 car the same? Is the sheet metal on the shock towers the same thickness for v6 and v8? - I cannot replace the shock towers, I am not that good. However I could weld some support for the subframes and then add new sheet metal over top. Totally redneck style.

 

you might do good with some of the prospects you've found if they come with brakes. i don't pay much attention, but i frequently see the v-8 falcons getting three times that for projects etc. if you got a motor, go with a 6 cyl car then, the 8" from the mav is a bolt in. plenty strong in a car as light as the falcon.

the toughest part about the brake swap, you have to switch to granada tie rod ends, or get some tie rod adaptors from steves mustangs, otherwise the mustang upper a arms make it a bolt in.

the sheetmetal should be the same, i think it's only bolt on stuff that's different.

something to consider, are you gonna de chrome the car? cause the factory 8's generally came with more gingerbread than the 6 cyl models, why pay more for all the crap you're gonna shitcan?

check out TFFN.NET and FORDSIX.COM for just about all you care to know about hot rodding these turds.

 

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yeah like fatdad said, i forgot the brakes/rear axle are lighter, not that you'd keep either stock axle.

to me it comes down to the roundbodies are nearly impossible to find v-8's in already, and the later falcons, more likely to have 8's in em are not as good looking.

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Well, I have been looking at cars with no motor at all, and have not seen any in-line six's. Some aren't even a rolling chassis. I am not used to looking at cars with no real frame, it scares me.

I am thinking '64 shaved door handles, sittin' low. Nothin too fancy. Maybe a little fuel cell action in the trunk.

I don't really care about the hood either, cuz I eventually want a 351w in one... fiberglass bumpers and hood - Don't get upset w/me over replacing metal either

This is what I like... just not the color and maybe some baby moons with reverse rings instead. Also matching painted bumpers and diff hood, diff tailights.






I should add that I want to put flames all the way down the inside part of the "v" on the car. Would be a two tone painted inside the "v" with flames layed over... would be awesome to me.

 

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Are the subframes in a v6 and v8 car the same? Is the sheet metal on the shock towers the same thickness for v6 and v8? - I cannot replace the shock towers, I am not that good. However I could weld some support for the subframes and then add new sheet metal over top. Totally redneck style.

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I've had some experience with projects like this so I'll throw in my bit.

The answer is yes to all those questions but let me explain further. Subframe, shock towers, and everything else that doesn't bolt on is the same as a V-8 car. You'll find this with most unibody Fords of this era.

I think the reasons that most people don't finish the front suspension/brake conversions are the following:

It's easiest to use the same year range Mustang brake components and since not that many Mustangs came with disc fr. brakes, the parts can be a bit pricey or if you're buying used, hard to find. Not bad pricey or rare, just not as cheap and plentiful as a lot of the GM components that are a dime a dozen.

Second, many people are afraid of coil spring front ends. I know it sounds stupid because with a good spring compressor and some caution, they are easy to work on. But most of your 'shadetrees' are intimidated by them.

I think that is why you see the rearend get changed but not the front. Basic mechanical skill and confidence. If you have or are willing to get some of the basic tools you need, it will be a fairly straightforward conversion to 5 lug/disc fr. end and 302 V-8.

I'll address the bracing you mentioned and then shut up. If you look at a couple of things that Shelby did to the '65-'66 Mustangs that he hopped up, you can fab similar things for your Falcon. He used solid shock tower bracing under the hood, both between the shock towers across the engine AND to the firewall. They called this 'export bracing'. It makes a BIG difference in handling by limiting the 'body torquing' that your new bad ass V-8 can do when you put the pedal down. It also helps the body not tweak under cornering loads no matter what powerplant you use. A definite 'must have'. They MIGHT be available in the aftermarket these days but I wouldn't count on it for Falcon. But you might be able to buy the Mustang stuff and modify it.

Hope this helps some.

 

Oh, and PM Kentucky. He's a cool guy and unless he has sold his, can set you up close to home for a good price.

 

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention, I wouldn't worry about the floors and such but adding subframe connectors to a high HP unibody car is never a bad idea. You could make your own but I think some are available.

And definitely find out from ray about the sway bars he's using. Those would help as well.

Man, now I'm kinda stoked about this project. You could end up with a solid handling, fast car out of this. I had forgotten how much fun they could be. Keep us posted on how it works out.

 

Thanks again. Acutally, I have been in contact with Kentucky. I haven't seen his car, but it sounds like he has most of what I need. He is pretty laid back, and has been real helpful and nice to me.


When you say don't worry about the floors, I suppose if the sub frame is there, there would be no reason to worry. But, from what I have seen so far, the rusty floorpans are all that holds the two subframes together. I guess not reinforcing the subframes is out of the question.

 

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When you say don't worry about the floors, I suppose if the sub frame is there, there would be no reason to worry. But, from what I have seen so far, the rusty floorpans are all that holds the two subframes together. I guess not reinforcing the subframes is out of the question.

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Well yeah, if the floors are just held together with iron oxide, then definitely worry but if they are undamaged, they will suffice as far as sheetmetal gauge and strength.

On Falcons and Mustangs, the rockers have a lot to do with body support and rigidity in the middle of the car. So if you get a car with good rockers and subframes, you can patch the floors in sections if it's rusty and you'll be good to go.

 

I have converted many a Falcon to a V8 car. It's pretty easy with a few basic mechanical skills. As stated above, the Mustang stuff is a bolt in deal. I have done this swap with all the Falcons from 60 to 67. On the 60 to 62s and early 63s I had to dimple the firewall in a couple of places, but nothing to major. And swich spindles to accecpt the bigger 5 lug style hub. 63 and a half to 66 has a little larger engine bay. 67 and up is the easiest cause all the spindles are the same, so it's just a matter of swaping out the hubs, and these years will take a big block FE style too. The export bracing is an excelant idea, and you can probably make your own if ya can weld. These cars sit on a Mustang pan basically, so you can probably use Mustang sub frame conectors or build your own. Do lots of research on Shelby Mustangs and build your Falcon just like that and it should handle like it's on rails. Last, Shelby re-located the upper control arms, and thats pretty easy as well. Mustangs, Fairlanes, Mavericks, and Granadas are good donnor cars. Good luck. O Yeah, all the sheet metal is the same.

 

Hey k-member, remind me about exhaust on these conversions. I seem to remember either manifold or header fit issues on some. Am I mis-remembering?

 

OK, I think the right manifolds require no work, it's when you go putting headers on them, that require some minor work to the firewall and header dimpling depending on what brand header you chose. I have used early 289 manifolds with great luck. If you run a 351 Windsor, I have had to trim the bottom of the shock tower and reinsert them about an inch into the tower for exhaust to fit better. Does that make sence?

 

I have had a 1965 Falcon, 1964 Ranchero and 1965 Ranchero, all were 6 cyl to V8 conversions. They swap isn't difficult by any means. For the Falcon, I bought a '65 2 dr sedan with a 170 six and an automatic, and a 1978 Ford Granada. I bolted the disc brake spindles on and used tie rod adapters, the rear axle bolted in (I redrilled for larger U bolts. I reused the old driveshaft. I used a Lokar floor shifter. For the engine, a bought the 1964 Ranchero and used it's engine mounts and 302. It's all bolt in stuff.

If you're interested, my '65 Ranchero already has a V8 conversion and is for sale, 289 4 speed.

 

Thanks for the offer, but putting it together will be part of my growth and learning. Then I can give it to my girlfriend and start a real hotrod. Yesterday, my friend told me I could practically have a 302 roller motor with those pretty heart shaped heads on them.

I just came from "Big Al's" - that guy is the falcon king and a Falcon Club of America Member. He has no computer! OMG> Anways, Al showed me everything to watch out for... the rear spring shackles going through the trunk; floorpans on the driver's side toe area rusted through. He had a couple laying around to show me what is good and not good. Word!

Thanks for all your help btw! - you guys rock!

 

Aside from the spindles... won't I need v8 steering? Like a steering box, pitman arm, center link, idle arm, connecting rods, then the spindle?

I'm such a neewb!

I saw a 64 ranchero about 3 weeks ago with a 302 in it, and the motor laid on the center link! You coudln't steer, it was super dangerous. I told that guy he was crazy!

 

The six cyl steering stuff does work but isn't as sturdy as the real stuff. I bought tie rod end adapters (so the six cyl outer tie rods fit in place on the V8 spindles). As for the engine sitting low, I don't know what the guy did with the Ranchero, but the three cars I have had all have had no clearance probs. in that area. Our one car is lowered and is running full length headers, those are having some clearance issues.

I am actually planning on a Mustang II or straight axle sooner or later to strengthen the front. But what I have works under regular use.

 

Dirty31 put a mustang II under his 65 all by him self. Pretty good for his first project !!! He has picts and will help !!!
From his PROUD dad, Dirty2

 

If you want to see the most KILLER Falcon suspension goodies, do a search for TOTAL CONTROL PRODUCTS.

In my opinion, the finest suspension stuff out there for these cars.

Scotch~!

 

I bought the spindles and disc brakes from a Maverick . The car had manual disc brakes, 5 lug.. ( non power)

I used the tie rod adapters and used the 6 cylinder steering parts.

I bought new re-po mustang upper A arms since my 62 Falcon had the early style ball joint upper arms.


it all bolted on and lined up. I cut the 6 cylinder coils a little.

I am keeping the 6 in my car, I'm building a 200 cid engine with an Australian cylinder head.

I bolted a Maverick 8 inch rear diff ( 5 lug) into the car. I used some early slapper traction bars and had some new U bolts bent up.

 

What kind of tire clearance do you have in the rear? I had a 62 tudor in high school, and I put in an 8" in it. I can't remember if it was Maverick or Mustang, but tires were tight......BTW, your car looks killer with the torque thrusts on it....

 

My Falcon buddy, Big Al, told me that axle length on falcons is 52" and that when looking for a conversion you want 48" - or less - in order to get good tires under the rear. - I have no idea what he means to measure from tho.


Ok. I am guessing Big Al told me to be cautious of the driver's and passengers "toe areas" because he knew I wouldn't understand how to properly inspect the torque boxes. (maybe I dunno)


Maybe someone can help me out on this?

Third picture down, on the right:
http://www.stuart.iit.edu/students/2112/mycar/Sept2001.htm


This guy replaced the torque box on the passenger side. I am guessing that is it where those ugly welds have been painted black? What exactly is the function of the torque box? -



I was told by another friend that he replaced the torque boxes on his mustang because they were in bad shape.

It would be be awseome to have a good handling car that zips around corners. I am used to Galaxies that seem to have the "factory body roll" option. There is much more I could have done for it but it was a cruiser.

 

heres a mII swap ive got a 61falcon with narrowed 9in, and all chev running gear using motor plates and a mustang 2 front clip if you have any other questions or need pics i have lots...pm me if u do GOODLUCK ..ratchev http://www.stuart.iit.edu/students/2112/restoration/M2frontend.htm i think this sites already been posted tho

 

oh and if you want a f/g hood get a thunderbolt hood they look killer this site has a pic of em, ive seen places you can jus buy the scoop an mold it into ur existing hood http://www.usbody.com/60-69%20Falcon.htm

 

Couldn't resist....my first car in 1968...1963 futura and my second car in 1969...1964 with a 1968 302 and four speed...real goodyear indy tires on chrome reverses on the back, and skinny Cragar s/s's on the front....Falcons ROCK!!!...oh yeah...and me (draft bait) leaning on it.

 

I had a 64 Sprint 260 V8/4 speed car that I couldn't sell. Most everything will be the same as the early Mustangs. A 351W is not an easy drop in. The shock towers will need work to make the wider engine fit. The Granada brake swap is easy. Also lower the front A-arms a tad to give your tires a longer tread life.

 

hatch: Bada-bing!


Hellfish: I would have made you an offer you couldn't refuse.

Here is the newest problem:

The more I research, the more complicated my "master plan" is becoming.

After all this advice about "look at shelby" & "look at MII" - I am totally diggin the MII swap. Rack and Pinion baby.

When I said that I couldn't do much with rotten shock towers, it just looks more intimidating to repair those than it would be to cut everything out and replace it with mustang II.

I want to start off right, because I figure that I will tear it up good over the next few years and you all can laugh at me as I screw things up royal. It seems that I could easily kick myself for having a car completely apart and not converting to mustang II just because I was timid or whatever. Plus, once the 302 is worn and I have all the good excuses supporting my upgrade fever; there will be plenty of room for FE or whatever.

Also, thanks to all for the input. You all rock!