First let me say I don't know much about suspension work.... I'll need some help here. Yesterday driving my '61 Full Size Ford down the interstate at 65 mph, the car started acting like there was a strong cross wind (there wasn't). I was sober as a judge, btw, so it wasn't the driver. The car wanted to wander side to side. It has a stock suspension with 1 1/2 lowering springs in the front and lowering blocks in the rear. Thought maybe a wheel was working lose, but all lugs were tight. It didn't handle that way consistently, just time to time, but enough that it seems that something is amiss. I hardly ever drive on the Interstate and didn't know if this was just something to live with or if something in the suspension needs attention. Thoughts anybody? Would sway bars front and rear tighten up the ride? Thanks for you help and guidance here.
1st I'd get everything checked out ,tie rods, ball joints etc. and still add the sway bars. Repack front wheel bearings. Do everything ,then you know what's what. just my .02
I planned on that tomorrow. Anything in particular I can check on in the driveway to help point them in the right direction? Anything visually I can check for here, other than the obvious?
your tires biasply? could be just the hiway if it wasnt constant. if there biasply, try using a friends radials and go the same route..
The lowering blocks may also be part of the problem. Some years ago, a friend lowered his '60 Starliner 4 or 5 inches with cut coils in front and lowering blocks in rear. At certain speeds and road conditions, it would wander like an elephant with an earache.
NewFalcon, you're bringing up a pretty sore subject. The car has BF Goodrich wide white radials on it. The first set I got from Coker were so out of round they required crazy amounts of weight and shook so violently you couldn't drive the car at speed.. Coker was great to work with, sent replacements so no problem there. But this second set still has a shimmy at 65-70. It feels like one of the tires is out of round again. So this afternoon, I thought I'd swap tires on one side first, then the other and try and locate which tire is bad. But the car also has Chinese repop brake drums. Could the drum(s) be out-of-round? This whole business started on the 3-hour trip to Jalopyrama yesterday. I was fighting the shimmy on the way up once I got on 50East to Annapolis. And fought the shimmy and the drifting all the way home on 301 South. Understandably, it was nerve-wracking to have happen. The entire front end was rebuilt last winter. I dunno. Feels like something has loosened up, but again, I'm not much on suspensions.
id try different tires if it was me.. put your car on ramps or stands and move each balljoint,idler,etc... grab the tire and shake up and down, then side to side see if anything moves more then 1/16th of inch. not sure on the drums, remove a tire and see if the stud holes are oval on the drums, that might indicate the drum maybe warped from the force of breaking, remove and check brake pattern wear on the shoes and drum, more wear on one shoe will indicate is uneven, or working more in one spot then the rest of the shoe, to say drum maybe warped.. if they are, take it to a shp to get turned.. (i usually get new drums turned before use to make sure) drums would only effect stopping, not the driving wander check ubolts, spring bolts and shackle bolts and bushings,shocks all 4 corners. id try tires first rick
I would look at everything to make sure everything is tight, if not tighten it. Jack it up and wiggle the tires/wheels first. Then if you can't find anything take it to a shop or someone that knows about front suspensions.
Try simple things first. Make sure the front wheel bearings are correctly adjusted. Loose adj there will cause really wierd darting/wandering etc. If their ok, then off to the front end shop to check everything.
Did you have caster and camber rest when you lowered it? Both are highly affected by ride height. Both have a tremendous influence over road manners.
I agree with scotty. when you slam a car it can really mess with your camber and SAI (steering axis inclination) and it will make the car ride on the edes of the tires. take an afternoon, read a book, and inspect and replace.
Check EVERYTHING for play. If you can see under it, have a friend cycle the wheel back and forth (running if it has power steering). Take a full minute to observe each joint in the steering, one-at-a-time, for any signs of play. Make sure everything is as tight as it should be. Look at every suspension bushing for cracks. From my years of building four-ex-four stuff I have learned that handling issues are often from several small problems, all added together. I have seen bad brand-new stuff, too. It can't be ruled out. Once all is inspected and corrected, get a competent alignment. This will reveal an issues **** as the SAI being unacceptably out of spec.
Do the tires show any wear issues ? Cupping, burned edges , Ect. Dont forget to check the steering gear box. Sector shafts on older hi-mileage boxes will get significant wear at the sweetspot . Sometimes adjusting works for a short time but eventually the shafts will require replacement.
Larry, I was wondering the same thing, could the steering box need rebuilding? Tires are too new to show much wear. I did check, but they are almost new. The car handles like an really bad case of understeer. It is managable, but a little like dancing with a great ol' big gal. I didn't notice it before and it seems yesterday once I got out on the 4-lane it really became noticable at speed. I jacked the front end up this afternoon and played around with a bunch of stuff, but nothing seemed real obvious. Off to the frontend shop in the morning.
I'm betting it's the old 301 shuffle. That is one of the worst roads around for ruts caused by the heavy truck traffic. Bias plys on this road are a handful. White knuckles and a rapid heart rate are common symptoms. The slow lane is usually worse. By all means check for loose linkage and a front end alignment is a good idea but don't get too worried if they don't find anything serious. As soon as I started reading your post I thought...it sounds like Rt 301. The truck ruts don't match the tread with of you Ford so both tires are fighting each other causing it to dart from side to side. It can be hard on the seat upholstery too. I understand if you do not want radials but they do make a big difference in this situation.
KenC, you be Da' Man!!! Bad wheel bearing and one front tire horribly out of balance. And a steering box that could probably stand a rebuild at some point. But there's more to the story. I went over the car numerous times, couldn't find anything. Listened to all the suggestions you guys made. Thanks for the guidance, I appreciate it. Took it to the closest shop to my house where I buy tires for my family car. Asked one of the guys back in the bay if he could help me identify a problem in my '61. He said, "Yeah, I want to, but the guys up front running the franchise I doubt will let you leave it for me." What??? Yep, one of those modern, big-name franchises, said, "No we won't work on your car. We don't know anything about that old stuff." Grrrr, didn't feel like arguing with them. So off to a second shop. Bill Crumpton Tire here in Richmond, which is a pretty good hike. Old-time back-in-the-day alignment shop. Aaron runs the front, is a young guy, good front-end man, absolutely car crazy. He jumped on the job with the understanding that he would treat it like his own and repair it the right way. Drove the car himself, supervised the work, reset the toe-in, locked up the car inside the shop overnight, then drove it again to make sure it was right. Called me first thing this morning with a To Do list- stuff he would do if it were his car. Lesson learned: Support the shops that support the hobby. I shoulda known that to start with.
Bad/loose wheel bearings will do the same thing as a worn out tierod end, the car will grab the lines in the road, even the painted lines I'd swear those too. The condition can be very erratic and be dependent on the crown of the road as well. The old Ford boxes are easy to adjust though, follow a set procedure or your front end shop can do it for you. Bob
I knew a guy once that had a '68 Big Block Coronet. It needed plugs but the rear two on the drivers side were a ***** so he put new tires on it instead. Lets start with the most obvious here. Brake drums out of round won't make it wander. it will shake and pulse like a dog ****ping peach pits when you apply the brakes but it won't make it wander. A lowered vehicle wants everything to be up to snuff. Tires, ball joints tie rod ends etc. The same problem with a raised vehicle BTW. You steering geometry has been changed and it won't be as forgiving as one that is the way it came, as a rule. Check the obviuos first. Go to the area of highway that you wander on and take a look at the pavement. Are there rain grooves or uneven pavement? te reason I ask is that any of the above mentioned parts will be more noticably out of whack whenyou are nor running on gl***. Now get your suspension checked out. You are probably going to find that any number of things in the suspension itself are a problem. ASfter that check into your tires. I haven't heard anything as of late but over the years I have heard lots of horror stories about Coker tires. I understand that they have gotten better but if you have your suspension up to par and there is still a problem I would suggest that the tires are a problem.
If drums are out-of-round the brake pedal will flutter when the brakes are applied. This usually occurs when the drums have been turned out too thin and the rbakes are applied in a panic stop thus egging the drums. You are probably meaning out-of-balance which is possible though brake drum manufacturers here and at least in Canada balance drums after manufacture so there are no balance problems with them. Glad to hear you have the problem solved.
Bad wheel bearing was the cause, he believes, Tommy. Aaron was of a mind to rebuild that steering box, too, but it wasn't something that needed to be done right way. He tightened it up, but he didn't want to go too far since the car doesn't have power steering. He said if it were his, put the rebuild on the "Winter Project" list. He was also unsure if the front wheel bearing was incorrectly packed when the front end was rebuilt, or if it was a bad bearing. It wasn't squeeling like they some times will, but it was noisy. So if the noise/ill handling comes back, replace the bearing. It didn't have undue wear on it, no marks or anything, so he was hoping the repacking would do the trick. There is one tire/wheel that had more weights than the others, so he moved that to the back, hoping it would help with the tracking. But if it didn't, then the tire probably needs to go back to Coker. It was one of the front ones that have already been sent back once before for replacement. This would be a second replacement. I am hearing more and more complaints about the wide whites. Fortunately, Coker is very easy to work with and I've gotten full credit for the returns and they paid the shipping. And Aaron is big on getting the "drag" of both front wheels the same. He doesn't want one wheel to turn more/less freely than the other. But he tells me it is more difficult to achieve equalibrium with drums than it is with discs. His idea is to play around with the car when I can leave it with him. He confirmed what Porkn****** said, which is a lowered car wants everything perfect. Nice guy, good shop, I'll be back.
Your message about supporting your locally owned auto businesses is spot on. There are so many franchise owned and multiple location shops, both mechanical and body ,that finding the the people that know how to fix things is getting tough. Being in the business you routinely hear "the other shop will fix my car for less ", then they are back later asking what will it cost to redo their work.
Larry, that is such a good point. I frequently run into the other end of the same problem. If somebody will do the job right, I'm happy to pay them a premium. To me the sad part of this story is that the franchise operation has now lost all my business. I just won't go back. Crumpton's Tire will get all my business from now on. I was willing to let the franchise shop put the car on the rack. The mechanic in the back wanted to do the work. I'd have paid the shop extra. Who made sure that didn't happen? The suits up front. They had a guy in the driveway with his wallet out- me- and they told me to get lost. Doesn't make sense. But the people running the place just couldn't be bothered.
Pete . It comes down to this simple point. There is no buy in of ownership at the front desk. To the incentive paid manager it just a job.
UPDATE: Decided to do something about the out-of-round tire. I had my tire guys rotate the culprit to the back, move it on the rim, move weights to the outside of the rim, etc. No good. Called Coker and told them to send me a new tire- a replacement for the replacement- and they could not have been nicer about it. If you have a problem with their stuff, ask for Matt. He was great. I told him that I might have a second tire just slightly out-of-round, but I could not tell which one. He suggested I find a shop with a Hunter Roadforce Machine. He said that the machine will load the tire and balance under road-like conditions. It is sensitive enough to tell if the tire is out of balance, or out of round, and can match the high point of the tire with the low point of the rim. It will additionally tell you if the tire is worth saving, or just not salvageable. I've never heard of such a machine. He asked for my zip code, then gave me the names of 3 shops close to where I live that have the Hunter machine. Anybody ever use the Hunter RoadForce Machine to balance and/or test tires? Matt highly recommended it for tracking down problem tires. I'm going to give it a try, but if you have experience here, please post.
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