Maximizing horsepower for 350 chevy ( cont. of Chevy 283 or 355 in 57 chevy? )

Alright guys for those of you who followed my last thread thanks for staying on board and youll have to put up with the re cap

I have a 57 chevy 2 door hardtop with a fibergl*** tilt nose(takes care of weight)

Drive train
-motor
350 chevy 4 bolt main bored .030 over with trw 10.5:1 aluminum flat tops(with decked block so like 10.75:1?)
.513 lift 280 duration ISKY cam rpms 2500-6800 with anti pump ups (hydraulic flat tappet)
Cast steel **** crank(stock stroke 3.48"
Fenderwell headers
Tunnel ram with two 450 cfm holleys brand new from summit.
Stud girdles and screw in studs on 1.94 valve 67 chevelle camel hump heads.
I have a Multi spark ignition rev limiter

-Muncie m-20 4 speed with stock chevy truck 11" clutch (with blow shield)
- Ford 9 Inch (currently has 3.08 gears one wheel peel) but i also have a chuck with 5.13's and a spool!( oh and drive shaft loop with ladder bars!)

I swapped rear suspension from outside to underneath the frame for tire clearance and now has 5 leaf heavy duty springs with air shocks(only reasonably priced shocks that would fit in the small space, eventually go to adjustable coil overs)

Ok so thats my car in a nutshell.

NOW

Im trying to stay period correct( mid 60's) even if the parts arent period correct if i can accent or hide them in some way in nostalgia its ok.

SO anyways is there anything that should be modified, special attention tuning or replaced in order to achieve max horsepower/torque. this car is street but looking to make it street/ strip

thanks for any input im looking forward to your responses! im hoping its as lively as my last thread!

also would like to stick to my tunnel ram cuz i love the look and it took me a while to piece it together for reasonable price.


oh yeah. im in college and on a budget at least until summer time!

 

btt

 

The tunnel ram is not exactly mid 60's, but late 60's/early 70's. A cross ram or lowrise dual quad would be more accurate.

Rims, stance, and a no parts that look like they belong on a mullet mobile will get you real close to the look you are after.

 

lots of head work

 

i dont think i would change any thing with the motor..... i would put 3.73 and a posi in the rear....

 

I personally think you need to change your timeframe by about 5-7 years beyond '65.

In fact, you've violated the whole 60's idea by using a 350 in the first place. You need a 327 to pull off your "period".

The thing thats wrong about so-called "nostalgia" - is the mindset that you can just do whatever the hell you want to, then "hide" it, then call it period correct when its way off the mark. I think everybody has more respect and appreciation of any vehicle that is correctly represented - even if that period is on into the 80's. To be truly "nostalgic" is alot more that just how something looks outwardly.

The first rule of thumb is be true and honest with your intent and find out where that fits. Believe me, whatever you find yourself falling into - you'll have a very willing crowd of supporters and contributors. Confining yourself to a specific era mechanicly opens up all sorts of neat problematic mechanical scenarios that force you to use your own noggin. The guys that lived that time, know that - and you'll find the tech conversations really inspiring. We take alot for granted in this day and age and it unrightfully discounts the true ingenuity of those who walked the rodding path before us.

Your car already sounds "2-lane blacktop", which is cool as all hell! But, its early to mid 70's and not mid 60-ish. The really neat thing for you Chevy guys is that the "492" head casting is still availabe new - which is period correct for the early 70's and goes along with the mention, "lots of head work". When a guy who lived that time comes up to admire your car, and you've walked the same path (head work) - the conversations can get damn near magical. Buddy, that's the big payoff when you successfully bridge the time warp of what we love.

I'm not busting your balls at all. I've been there in that I drew the "tech line" on my project at '65 when this business frowned on anything post '62. I ran an Edelbrock AFB for a couple of years and you could just see it in folk's faces "man, that ain't right" - and it wasn't. I've labored through using a real '58 vintage AFB and getting it right - taught me alot that I otherwise would have taken for granted. It also made me appreciate the advantages of the Edelbrock variant, lessons learned on both ends of the time spectrum that I'll use appropriately.

Looking forward to watching your project go forward.

Hud

 

I don't think there is much difference in time line on the staggered crossrams (Factory, Offy, Edelbrock STR 1) and tunnelrams. I don't know about the side by side crossrams, I guess they might be a little earlier. Anyway the factory crossram came out for the Z-28 to run Trans Am races in 69 (maybe 68?). And the Offy was a direct copy of it, Edelbrock patterned after it. So they were late 60's.

I'd try a lower gear in your car before I did anything else, probably 3.73 if you do any highway driving at all. That and put a GOOD clutch, pressure plate and flywheel in it. A 40 lb. flywheel wouldn't sound as rappy as a light aluminum wheel, but the drivability on the street would be better. And when you wind it up before you drop the hammer, they leave pretty well. Ask the old MP and G***er guys that ran small cubic inch engines.
Larry T

 

now can you define 40lb flywheel? do u mean stock or..??

 

Well plenty of people are mentioning gears, so what spline axles do you have? In my tours through the junk yards, a very high majority of 1970 and 80's Ford Broncos has 3.55 posi rears with 31 spline axles. Keep an eye out for those.

I've never run 450 carbs, so call Holley and verify that the idel circuits have been sized for a dual quad combo. I know the 660 center squirters were, but the 390's were not. It will help with tuning your carbs. Also, do you have a secondary metering block on them? If not, I might encourage you to ask if they make a kit to do this. I have bought one for the 600 List 1850 Holley carbs. Makes it real nice.

What do you have for a fuel system? I think you'll need to run an electric fuel pump.

I'm okay with a young guy in school doing his best to build a period themed car yet cutting some corners. I don't think I would build a 327 to be correct. You've got a limited budget and time line. It's worth somthing to cut a few coners and be driving the car rather than more accurately building it but not driving it for a few years. As life allows you, you can make changes.

I say this because driving my high school hot rod helped shape my iden***y. Had I been one of those kids they was always building a car and not driving it I would probably be a different person. I can appreciate the efforts to of a true period build, but I can see the other side of only being young once. Good Luck man!

 

Ive got the holley mechanical fuel pump now and a fuel cell. i believe 110- 130 gph for the pump? i cant recall which one. i believe its the 110 though.

my 450's are actual tunnel ram carbs and i believe they were advertised for multi carb setup.

OH and my 3.08's are 28 spline and my 5.13's are 31 spline but still need to buy axles for the 5.13's. I was actually considering selling the 5.13's but idk ill see how they do maybe. but you guys are right i think 4:11's are more what i need. i actually just found 4.56 gears on craigslist for 50 bucks ( just the gears not the chuck) but i dont think thats worth getting from a 5.13, may as well make it 3.88's or 4.11's

i completely agree with the cutting corners as you can see. thats something i have to realize, that its better to just drive the car as is for cheap and efficient and the rest will fall into place! ill check on the metering block( i think theyve only got 1 ill check summit though)

 

these are them, so yes designed for multi carb and no for double metering block

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HLY-0-9776/

 

Not sure if you've got room for a secondary metering block without going sideways, but we can cross that bridge later.

Moroso makes a spring to increase the output of the holley blue pump, I would look into that. How big is your fuel line? a 5/16 is way too small. 3/8 can work, but a 1/2 is ideal. You also want to minimize restrictions. Radiused bends are good and br*** 90's are bad.

Have you ever been down the drag strip? Do you want to optimize the car for maximum drag performace yet drive it on the street, or do you want to make it very streetable and see how it does down the track?

 

Sounds like a cool buildup. Ive been building a period correct 60s tri 5

In keeping it correct for the 60s (modified production cl***) I went with what most people did back then and that was to use a 283 block plenty in bone yards back then. Mine is from a 64 Impala 40 over. Used all fuelie stuff ported/shaved power packs heads 1.94/1.5s,30-30 solid, Crane stamped slotted rockers, fuelie TRW 11 to 1 pistons, ported mid 60s ramhorns. Rochester 4g. (cast iron housing) locked dual point converted dist. I havent found a cross ram yet.


Anything bigger would be a (G***er Cl***) at .125 over 13 to 1, roller cammed, mech. injection. maximizing horse power

The ****** is all stock stuff bellhousing, clutch linkage, and motor mounts. it all unique to the tri 5s. The ****** is a 68-69 BIG BLOCK HD 3-speed muncie same gear ratio as th350. The shifter is early 60s Fenton floor 3speed.

The rear is a 57 unit -best of all 3 years. Pumpkin is from a late Impala SS 4:56 posi. If I find 5:13s I'll use those. Wheels are 14x7 14x6 inch steel slots.

It was easier and cheaper to build this than to use modern stuff.

 

A stock flywheel isn't quite that heavy, probably 25-30 lb. (guess). It would be aftermarket.
Larry T

 

my carbs are sideways mounted if you look closer.

my fuel line is all 3/8 fuel line. even the copper going to the tunnel ram that is radius bent.

but also i havent taken it down the strip yet but plan to do so this summer ( should have this summer but breaking my collar bone put me on hold with ****oning some things up). but this spring i should be able to. New England dragway is like 25 minutes from my house!

 

herdez, thats pretty much what i was looking to build in my previous thread^

thinking back on it now. i guess the only thing i can do is make it look like its period correct! which is ok for now. but im gonna keep my 64 283(out of an elcamino un molested since 64) on the back burner.

i bet it goes just fine too!

have u taken it to the track yet?

 

Stagered Cross rams are early 60's stuff

 

didnt mopar come out with a factory cross ram in the LATE 50's? (300/ fury's?)

i know we're talking about chevrolet right now, but just saying

 

3.90 gears would be my vote. Followed by a hidden nitrous kit.

Unless you wanna go to huge aftermarket heads, there's not a lot you can do to that engine without starting over from scratch. It's got a decent cam and decent compression. You might find a tenth here and there but there will be no magic bullets. Other than gears and NOS. You might look into larger chamber heads to get the compression down into blower range, blower is definitely a magic bullet.

Good luck!

 

Well, ther can be some pretty terrible tunes on TR. Just getting the cam dialed in properly, carbs and accelerator pumps tuned, ignition optimzed, gearing, traction there can be some pretty significant gains to be had.

The magic bullet for you will be experience. There is lot of driver error for a rookie. Keep going to the drags and learn to drive your car.

I would also start looking for a 1960's vintage Hurst Line Lok.

You will be able to turn low 12's pretty easily. I suspect with a little more work 11's can be had.

You might want to revisit that copper fuel line you mentioned earlier. Tech at the track may bounce you for it. I think copper fuel line is not allowed any more.

Let's get soem pics in this post now man. No pics on page 1 in a thread like this is dull.

 

Not on Chevys. At least not the factory Z-28, or Offy (based on Z-28) or Edelbrock STR10.
Larry T

Just looked and the early side by side Edelbrock (X-C8) crossram was late 50's, early 60's.

 

these pics are after i put in my cross bar and air shocks

 

yeah ill have to look into the fuel line and my next step was to actually find a line lock! (didnt actually know they had it in the 60's) so ill look into it!

 

Hey oneratfink57,

I'm new to forum but have been following your thread(s). Actually, reading your thread and the Jr Stocker thread is what finally prompted me to join the HAMB.
Anyway, in my Popular Hot Rodding January 1967 there is an ad for the Hurst Line-lock, so it would seem to go with your plans.

Good on you for the direction your taking with your 57!
My own 57 has kinda got the late 60's-early 70's jr stock/street look to it, but its hard to get things spot-on accurate so we just do the best we can - right?

enjoyin' your progress!

Lost Creep

 

Hey Lost Creep,

let me be one of the first to welcome you to the Hamb! Im happy my forums sparked some interest! I know what youre going through now. the good thing is though is that for the mid to late 60's it was kind of a turning point for the aftermarket world and the muscle cars were coming into play and some parts that came with them can go with your cars with a sense. Granted it is difficult to stay on track with the period correctness but at least we have a little wiggle room! Just cant get too crazy! No Billet! haha but good luck with your projects and thanks again for your interest

-Nick-

 

I don't know squat about what's period correct or what isn't, but I think your engine/rear end combo won't work well together. Your deal would run better with way less intake manifold....or better yet, way more head (bigger valves and more flow) AND a way more gear in the rear end. That manifold wants to run from probably 3500 to 7500 rpm. Your heads won't let it. The cheapest route would be to get a single 4 bbl intake and 3.73 or 4.11 gears. You would have a great running street car.

If you want more than that....keep that intake and get better heads (2.02 or bigger valves and a lot of porting, + small chambers to get the compression a little higher) A bigger cam shaft, and throw those 5.13's + spool in the rear end and you would possibly get that car in the low 12 second range...MAYBE it would touch 11's on slicks if it ran really well and you got it as light as possible. That's very respectable.

 

I would go and change your heads for ultimate power. Keep it iron, and run something like a Dart Iron eagle Platinum, RHS, or similar in 180-200 cc intake port. Keep a 64cc chamber and you should be good. You will get at least 50hp from the head swap.

Grind off the cast in name and they look like every other set of bolt hole heads around.

 

I was thinking about doing the work to the heads I have on it now, but for a new set of cast iron heads it will run me even less then it would be to grind over, new valves, valve guides porting etc... so ill probably go with buying a new set from summit perhaps

 

Another reliable combo for your 60's g***er/MP car would be an early 327 block, giving you a 4" bore (a 283-.125 over) use the 283 crank.....(forged), go .030 over giving you something in the area of 306 cu in. You have a larger bore, so that eliminates the worries about larger valved heads and block clearance issues. No big deal now to step up to better heads. This was a popular combo in the gas/MP cl***es back then. The 301 was all you had till 62 with the 327 coming into play. Good luck....enjoy

 

I actually just found a nice set of RHS that ill end up saving for, for this summer little pricey so maybe ill look into the machine work also. thanks guys