It seems like people are always talking about some difference in flaring brake and fuel lines. What is it?
If you run steel lines double flare everything. If you use copper fuel line single flare it. I'd run steel for everything. Steel line will crack if single flared.
Steel is the only way to go, stainless is even better. Br*** is way too soft and easily damaged. Always double flare 'em. You will be safer in the end!
Generally, single flares are used for low pressure lines (propane and natural gas) thats because these fittings are 45 degree angles. Any tubing that you double flare are to be used on 37 degree fittings only. That being said, you should NEVER use br*** or copper tubing on brake lines. There too soft. Steel or stainless could be used all over, but steel is the cheapest to buy, and easyer flared.
That answers it all, thanks. I thought one was supposed to be 45 degrees and the other 37 but it looks like 37 will work for all. Thanks.
Actually, I believe you will find all fittings originally intended for automotive use, i.e. SAE standards, are 45* flares. AN (Army/Navy aka mil spec) are 37* flares. Since there is quite a bit of AN stuff being used, one should be aware which is which and have tools for both and use them accordingly. You CAN use an automotive 45* tool to flare AN, and vice versa, and depend on tightening the nut to 'reshape' the flare angle, but that is poor workmanship at best and risky at worst. Ray
ok this is a very important question to me also, yes my project is off topic,but my steel lines are reaching 25 years old, and they run factory along the inside of the floor pans along the rail. seems to make them well protected, but I would like to install slightly larger lines, I know a lot about AN fittings and how to flare lines for them, but know nothing about double flaring steel lines, also what is the difference between single wall and double wall lines. If anyone has a guide to doing the double flares post it up. what i need to do is run the steel lines, and then of course they can be ended with standard pipe thread ends correct?
To clarify: double flares are 45 degrees, single is 37 but I don't know of any use for them when building a car.
Here's "some" info from an outfit that sells copper/nickel brake lines. A little spendy but will probably outlive anything that you'd use it on. http://www.fedhillusa.com/
mine came with the special metric flare,but I can change to standard fittings due to everything under my hood being AN. let me explain the situation, I changed to dual carbs, I have an unusual factory in tank pump for the carburetors,the pump is on a hanger with a fixed steel barb on top of the hanger bracket. that end is easy, I can braze a pipe thread fitting where the barb is, inside the tank is rubber hose, but a leak there isn't dangerous, so to safely run these new fuel lines, what type of flare do I need to use? and the threaded ends that screw in on the lines are standard pipe thread correct? I will need to screw them into an aluminum coupler to go to AN. These lines are going to be a ***** to bend too, through the entire length of the run, they have no fittings inside of the car,only solid tube, the fittings are outside of the p***enger compartment. runs as one piece from firewall to under the rear seat,where they go through a body grommet.
That is simply not so. For a given type, i.e. SAE 45* flare, you use the same tooling to make a single flare or a double flare, the difference being an extra step to form the 'crimp' from which the double flare is formed. that requires a small die that is not used for a single flare. BUT, the tubing vise and the flaring die are the same.........if they make a 45* single flare, they make a 45* double flare. 37* AN fittings are not double flared........they use a flared collar that goes on the tube prior to flaring, along with the flare nut, and when the tubing flare is formed (single) the flare collar comes up to the tube flare and 'supports' it against both the flare fitting and where ir p***es through the nut.
anyone feel like making a short video on making the flares,other then the AN flares? I have an AN flaring tool, but with the steel lines don't they require a different kind of flare? You know you have been making AN stuff too long when you forget how to make any other kind of flare.
Here's the simple part. If you're building an early Ford the only flares you'll be making are 45 degree double flares. All the rest I don't give a **** about....
Try out this thread, show's double flaring pretty well. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=415946&highlight=flare
Yes! You can do 37* AN flares on steel, stainless steel, aluminum, copper. Most malleable metals can be flared. The thing to be careful of on steel tube, or any tube, is the seam on welded tube. They can split at the seam. Seamless tube flares much better. I did AN plumbing on a air-breathing rocket test stand for 18 years and 45* double flares on cars since I was a teen. Both wotk well. Have A great Day!!! See Ya' Later!!!
I appreciate it!! It would be much easier for me to do AN since I will have AN on both ends anyway. As I mentioned before, my factory lines run inside of the car with the fittings outside of the p***enger compartment, I know summit sells quality seamless tubing for flaring. The only question is can I use aluminum ends or do I need the steel ends with steel tubing? I have one of the high quality flaring tools for doing aircraft AN flares. The tool like this
If you are familiar with -AN fittings and procedures then do all your lines in stainless with -AN flares. It is a higher standard than double flare and you won't have to chase leaks around the car. You don't have to use the anodized fittings, for fuel and brake lines there are steel and stainless steel fittings available.
I've built replacement brake and fuel lines out of the same stuff from the parts store, ready to use sections with fittings already on -
If you're going to be using 37 degree flare/AN fittings, go to Aircraft Spruce Co. and buy some Del-Seals. They are formed pieces of dead soft aluminum designed to ABSOLUTELY fix any leak problems. DEL fitting seals are designed to eliminate leakage due to scratches on the sealing surface, improper torquing, or poor finishes on tube ends, in high or low pressure applications. For use with AN, MS, and JIC 37° flared fittings, DEL fitting seals also reduce tube flare cracking by reducing torque needed, eliminating nose damage to the fitting, and allow reuse of hardware. Approved by FAA, NASA, SAE, Air Force, Army, Navy, and major aerospace contractors. Tube Size OD Fitting Dash Size Part No. Price Buy 1/8 2 04-05002 $1.74 3/16 3 04-05003 $1.73 1/4 4 04-05004 $1.73 3/8 6 04-05006 $1.82 1/2 8 04-05008 $1.73 5/8 10 04-05010 $1.93 3/4 12 04-05012 $1.93 1 16 04-05016 $1.73
What is the reason you want to install slightly larger lines? It shouldn't make the brakes work any better. Charlie Stephens
fuel lines, both the fuel and brake lines run along the inside of the car factory, the fuel lines are a one piece bent line with no fittings inside of the p***enger compartment, runs from behind the dash to under the rear seat. very well protected the way they are installed, just somewhat undersized
The Jalopy Journal
