Did my first "mock up", now I have questions...

I've been collecting parts to build a '29 Tudor sedan on '32 rails for over a year now and I finally pulled some of the stuff out of the parts pile and did a quickie "mock up" of the ch***is. My plan has been to make the car as low as possible but after putting everything together my ch***is is sky high! My goal was to make the lowest point of the sweep up in the front half of the frame about 4" off the ground and the point where the back half of the frame turns up about 6" off the ground. Nothing has been done yet to make it any lower but I simply just set set the frame on top of the front and rear axles and it looks incredibly high to me.

In front I have a Dago axle with all early Ford parts and my dummy wheels/tires are 26" in diameter (+/- .125") to simulate a 4.75 16 tire. I've always ***umed the Dago axle has a 3"-4" drop but the lowest point of the front axle is 6" off the ground. So, to those of you that have 26" tall tires and 4" dropped front axles, how far off the ground is your axle? I'm actually thinking about selling the Dago but it's all I have right now.

I actually plan on bobbing the frame horns and running a sorta-suicide front end with the axle in its normal location but with the spring behind the axle. I plan on having the top of the frame rails at about the same height as the top of the axle so that will obviously lower the front of the ch***is a few inches. To test this I took out the axle from under the frame and lowered the frame down so the tops of the rails were the same height as the top of the axle and I got the 4" I wanted at the lowest point of the front sweep. Cool.

Now for the back. My mock up wheels/tires are 31.5" tall (+/- .125") to simulate a 7.50 16 tire and the rear end is a 8" Ford out of a '67 Mustang. The rear end has 2.75" diameter axle tubes and the bottom of the axle tubes are 15.625" off the ground. Is it just me or does this sound higher than it should? I mean it's hard to argue against it because I've actually mounted the axle to pretend wheels and tires and that's what it comes out to but it still seems high. I got my tire heights from Coker's site but is there a chance that these dimensions are with the tires unloaded? Is there much squish in the tires once they've got some weight on them?

It looks like I'm going to have to really kick up the rear of the frame in order to hit the 6" high spec that I want. With the frame sitting right on top of the rear axle the frame is almost 11" off the ground. I was planning on pie cutting the frame right in front of the rear kick up and bring the back of the frame up until the section after the rear axle is parallel with the top of the frame but according to my math this only gets me a couple of inches at the axle. I also plan on adding c-notches above the axle but combined with the pie cutting job the frame will still be sitting right on top of the axle to make the frame 6" off the ground.

So am I on track here or is something way off? Sorry for the ****ty cell phone pic but it's the only camera I have right now. Thanks!

 

What, too much info for a Sunday morning?

 

the measurements are for unmounted tires. wheel width and vehicle weight will change vertical height of the tire

 

are those bias ply or radial tires? just had to ask...i've got nothing but a bump for ya.

 

A little part of me just died Any chance of just leaving the '32 rails alone and running a traditional beltline stance? I'm just curious why you guys like climbing into your cars like it's a cubbyhole? To each their own, but it just seems silly to me that you think that your frame looks "sky high" right now...maybe it's just me, I like to be able to get in and out of my vehicles without folding myself in half

 

So does anyone have info on how tall a mounted and loaded 4.75 16 and 7.50 16 tire is?

 

I figured that I should have the too low "cubbyhole" car now while I'm still young and flexible enough to get in and out of it. At least I'm not channeling it 6 inches, chopping it 6 inches and running a 120" wheel base!

 

I have coker cl***ic radials on my model A 5.50x16 there about 27" tall with my 330 hemi and tremec the rears are 7.50x16 and are just shy of 31" no gear set or fuel tank.

 

Thanks Doc.

 

Not too low man, you'll rub and s****e all the time. Take your time, do it right. Oh ya, do it your way just my 2 cents. Good luck.

 

With the tall rear tires you will have kick the rear of the frame alot to get stance you
want(with your numbers).

I`m with Kevin on this one

 

hey BEEF... the rod looks fine, but the tires look a little to narrow, in my view! HA! just messing with you man. good luck with your build, and please post pics as you progress...POP.

 

My CE 4" axle is 5" off the ground at its lowest point, with 5.25x16s. To tell the truth I would'nt want it any lower for drivability reasons.

 

You are also not taking into account the weight of the body, motor, etc. Personally, I think what you want is too low to enjoy. Mine is stock 32 with drop axle in the front. Never had any ground clearance issues. Never have to worry.

 

Yabba Dabba Doo.. .. Im learning...

 

Thanks for the input guys. My plan of 4-6" off the ground might sound low but my OT used-to-be daily driver is 3.5" off the ground at it's lowest point and I hardly have any problems. You just have to know how to drive a lowered car.

Yes I am accounting for the weight of everything that's going to be on the frame. The 4-6" spec will be it's loaded height. I'll build it about 1.5" higher with the frame unloaded.

 

I like your Buell, or should I say bike formerly known as Buell.

 

Just make sure to keep your scrub line in mind when you build it man...good luck...

 

I was planning exactly what you want to do, I think I'm gonna go a different way now. You're going to have to kick it up a bunch to make it work, plus do the no frame horns spring behind deal in the front. I was going to narrow the rails to 5" also. Here's a pic of my mockup, with 6.00-16 and 7.50-16, and a 5" plywood frame rail. Notice how high above the bottom of the body the rear axle centerline is. Search for pics of Alan Capes 31 coupe, built by Pinkees, its what you want to do.

Chris

 

Hey Beef Stew!
Your on track, going to have to cut it up alot
Front to back.
Most ford front axles have some drop from the factory, the vender of the drop may advertise it as 4" drop but, its 4'' over all ; realy just an inch or two over stock, looks clasic however it wont drop your front end 4". There are some folks who have really stretched or ****ed into the area from the perch mount to the kingpin and created a 6" + drop over all (+4 from stock) but they look out of proportion and odd in my opinion and cause tire/bones problems. If you want the center of the axle 4" off the ground you need to be aware of the scrub angle should you loose air in a front tire or dip it off the pavement. Watch the scrub on the back also. That wont be some cheezzy spoiler or ground effect that hits the pavement.

Bobbing the front horns and running a suicide front end with sping behind dropping the frame to axle level, to me that sounds like you will need to run a T-Bucket type front perch, from the other details you mentioned that wont work, axle in stock location for one. Yet I'm having trouble seeing how that would fit without such a t perch. steering parts ect.

You could also put some pie cuts in the frame or a z at the area of the cowl, that would also get your frame lower in that swooped area, a few further towards the front would get the engine portion of the frame back level.

6" height in the rear, dont forget that you will be pinching the rear of that frame to suite a model A, perhaps you could incorperate the m***ive movement needed for the drop and suspention clearance into the pinch and save the rear pie cuts you were thinking of. Also remember that you will be lowering the body down between the rear wheels past the factory fender cut outs and that brings up some clearance issues that need to be accounted for.

ok, so with all that, the only part of the frame that would be looking like '32 rails is the reveal line at the bottom. Might want to think about a different frame or different stance. You could build a tube frame quicker or Vaphead, alliance vender has a dropped F/R frame that would probably get you close to where you want to be and then again a '28 on stock '32 rails is about as cl***ic, timeless and traditional as they get.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=386827

 

Oh yeah I'm very familiar with the Pinkees coupe. I've been highly influenced by that coupe, the Rolling Bones cars, Stu's sedan (now AllStarDerrick), and a few cars built by Clark. I'm taking all the best things from these cars and trying to roll them into my own. Good luck on your project and thanks for the input.

 

Thanks for the detailed feedback. I don't want the axle to be 4" above the ground, I want the lowest part of the frame to be about that high and I will definitely be mindful of my scrub line. As for a suicide type or spring behind axle front suspension where the axle is still in the stock location I'd suggest you check out the Rolling Bones cars. They've taken what Doane Spencer did years ago and have definitely mastered it.

I really don't want to do any major frame mods like z'ing or sweeps where the frame can be seen. Luckily the perimeter frame was already setup for a Model A so the rear portion has already been pinched to tuck up inside the body. I've just got to cut it up now to get it lower.

You definitely can't beat an A on '32 rails so that's what I'm sticking with. Thanks.

 

Bump for a new week...

 

Like others have said.....iF you want to run that low Id be selling the 32 frame, building a new frame from 4x2 with all the appropaite kick up or buy one off Vaphead. I'm starting my frame tomorrow and will have 6" from the ground to ensure I have enough room for exhausts etc. If you want the 32 look go with some frame covers... guess what kind of frame is under this car???

 

Maybe it's just me but simulated '32 frame covers seem really lame. That'd be like a fake blower.

 

Any more info on loaded tire diameters?

 

Lots of views but no more posts. Don't be afraid to speak up. Thanks.

 

Beef Stew,Looks like a good start. When I did the mock up on my roadster ,I set up my frame and running gear { forty Ford } , all looked well until I set my engine in place. Had to rebuild the trans mount and engine mounts ,to raise it all up and have about 5" pan clearance. I was lucky and the engine was still below the cowl so I can run a hood top.

................Jack

 

is that an original frame? if so, sell it before you butcher it and just build a custom frame for your spring behind setup.