Air bags guys need your expertise

First let me say I did PM z-man back because my customer told me he had done the work and z-man says he did not. Therefor I appologized.

Guess my arguement is too strong for you guys to prove wrong huh. All you keep saying is its not safe. Prove to me why it is unsafe and I will gladly listen.

 

Your going to have to post a pic of your front end set up. To much or to little PSI could be the problem but if it a bounce that happens while your driving or hitting a bump Its gong to be a problem with the shocks. Thats what shocks are for. They control the bounce and the wavy sea like motion. Might be a problem with the way they are mounted.

Also for the argument of not needing shocks in the front. You do.
You might not feel like your ride is very bad but what your not seeing is tires bouncing like basketballs when you drive. There is no way around it. I know guys who tighten the control arms down, or run a bigger bag in the front, all kinds of things to not put on shocks. The only answer is shocks!

Also I like dominater air bag are the best im my opinion. suicidedoors.com

 

I believe I said that too!!

 

Again prove to me why a shock is different from an air bag and why it is unsafe and why I "NEED" shocks.

 

I do need to add this. I do build cars with shocks in the front. When the customer tell me what they want and when that means they should have shocks to achieve that goal then I install them. It all boils down to what does my customer want. Right now I would say I am about 65% with shocks 35% without.

 

An air bag is full of air, like a basket ball. A basket ball bounces. Now if the air filled basket ball also had a gas charged bounce damning shock inside of it it would no longer bounce. Some air ride set ups can get away whith out running shocks,(just because you cant see or feel the tires bouncing dosent mean there not). Iv ridden in a few and they rode fine. But in the case of some cars or trucks that dont ride fine the answer is shocks plane and simple.
Your defending the fact that YOUR car doesnt need shocks. This thread is to help the guy asking about his bouncy ride. Depending on what type of bounce it is, Its probably the shocks.

 

get some gauges FIRST THING... should never run without gauges.. taht **** is scary...

you are probably running high, and im willing to bet your shocks are binding.. take them off, drive around the blockand see how it rides.. if you want to run them in the long run, mount them better..

i wont get into the shock debate.. ive had 2 bagged 60s cars, no shocks on the front of either.. i still have the tabs to put shocks on my galaxie, but she rides like ****er how i have it setup now, so dont think i will, although im not against it.. maybe this year when i do some other tricks to it ill add em just for fun to see how it goes, atleast the brackets will be there if i wanna take em out/in

also, can you let us know how many valves you are running? if its ghetto rigged with only a couple valves it will sway more and may bind that way too

i also agree and would step up to RE7 slams if you can fit em, best riding bag outt here.. even 2600s would be an improvement.. larger bag = easier faster lift, and more cushion

pics man, pics lol.

 

I dont disagree that a car with air bags can have a bouncey ride if it is not built right, BUT.....


That arguement is illogical. How many basketballs have 2000lbs on them. Next inflate a basketball to 100 PSI and then put it under a piece of plywood with just 200lbs of weights as close to the ball as you can. NO DO NOT TRY TO BALANCE THE WOOD ON THE TIRE. Put the ball at one end. Now see how you bounce with the ball at 100 and at 50PSI. A guy showed me that test when I first started doing bags. It will open your eyes. Again I am not saying everyone should run without shocks all I am saying is it is safe and actually the bags function just like a shock when they are built right.

Waiting for someone to show me why I am wrong.

 

Who cares who had to fix what, lets just help this guy.

Do you have a friend with radial tires on wheels the same bolt pattern as your car?
If so, bolt them up and take your car for a spin. If that seems to fix the problem, then the bias ply tires most likely have a flat spot and it is causing all of your headaches. My '42 pickup rides and handles *****in' with radials, but the second I bolt up the bias plys it all goes out the window. I too have 4-wheel air ride, c-notch etc... but have a 4-link out back.

If bolting radials up helps, then check out the RCD suspension site and get yourself a set of Bilstien (or any other gas-charged shock) and it will help tame the problem, but might not cure it completely when you are running the bias plys.

 

Oh, and you wouldn't run a coil spring without a shock, so don't run an air bag without one. The air bag acts just like a coil spring and can go into "infinite spring" or bouncing just like a coil spring can.

An air bag or an air cylinder is not a replacement for an oil-filled or gas charged shock absorber. Shocks are built to control springs, in effect keeping them from working when they aren't needed - like when you're not hitting a bump...

 

No, we are just trying to help out a brother in need, not have an argument. I am not here to tear anyone down. I want all of you to be able to make informed choices about the safety of your rides. What you do with that information is up to you.

A modern shock absorber is an hydraulic appliance employing a precisely controlled flow of viscous fluid through opposing moving parts, for the purposes of dissipating excess kinetic energy in a suspension system, converting it into radiant heat, often times employing nitrogen gas in the compressible space, to prevent the foaming (cavitation) of the viscous fluid, which decreases metering function, otherwise known as shock fade.

A spring, air or otherwise, has none of these functions.

Yes, and airbag has some dampening effect, and it does have less potential stored energy when compared to a metal spring. This is why they are "pretty good" even without shocks. Even so, they don't have the ability to quickly dissipate excess kinetic energy. They may have a higher tolerance threshold than a metal spring, but they do have a threshold. Cross that line, and the suspension is out of control. It might be unlikely, but if it does happen, it could kill you.

It is not just how well it rides, but also how it behaves under extreme operating conditions, like say in an emergency handling maneuver.

I buy shocks on the wholesale level for $25-$75, unless they are really, really special. Mounts are cheap too. It wont "hurt" you to have them. You are looking at under $100 to potentially save your life and the lives of those around you.

Like I have said, what you do with this information is up to you.

By the way, I think we scared him off. Anyone hear back from him?

 

yep... and air bag is a spring replacement. Nothing more.

 

running shocks is nothing more than suggestion. you DON'T need to run them on all vehicles. i've been running my 05 2500 Duramax bagged with no shocks since i did it and have never had one issue. weight has alot to do with it. i've done many s10's with and without shocks. it's all in how you want the ride to be. Now the Back is a different story, never run without them there.

i have a 52 plymouth that i was going to bag with some 2500s i had laying around in the front, but decided to just wait and do re7 slams. they are a much better bag to run if you aren't running shocks (even if you are they are a better bag). as already said they don't balloon out like the stones. that alone would cause some bounce.

rjgideon makes an interesting point about the shock location

 

Dude you are now officially annoying. You say you have "customers"? That means you work in or own a shop? If you let anything leave your "shop" with out shocks on it (unless at the customers request) your a hack. You are turning loose an unsafe vehicle that you created=Hack. I just proved to you what the difference is between an air bag and a shock. They are two different components of a suspension. They are not the same thing. Stop saying you need to be proved wrong. Why do you think its called a shock absorber ?? Its absorbs shock....Did you get that? And an air bag caries load... Understand? You wouldn't run a coil spring suspension with out shocks. (hope not) So you shouldn't run an air bag with out them either. And that is because there is nothing to dampen the shock from bumps. The main way to not build it right is to not put shocks on....
Many tech articles have been written by many professionals in many magazines about this. And they all say no to non shock usage. Heres just one of many. http://www.minitruckinweb.com/tech/suspension/1001mt_shock_absorbers_air_springs/index.html

 

Now thats some funny ****... Shocks are NOT a suggestion. They are the correct way. Do it wrong if you want but dont help other people do it wrong.

The only way to help with the suspension problem at hand is by looking at some pictures of his set up.

I dont think the shocks would be binding up or he wouldn't have movement at all, or they would bend or break.

Depending on how the car is bouncing (a stiff bounce or a slow up and down sway) I doubt It has any thing to do with the tires. Up and down movement Is controlled by shocks. If it has fat tires it would probably bounce more depending on PSI and if the shocks were not working right. if its a low profile tire then it would just slam into bumps and make the car sound like its falling apart. A low profile wont bounce as much, rim would just dent.

Send some pics.

 

i'm not debating you at all, but by you saying it's the right way to do it is also a suggestion.

i agree without pics this is all just a shotgun affect

 

LOL, not even close. with shocks is the RIGHT way, without is the WRONG way. Period.

 

i have the slam bags in front have driven it all summer without shocks in the front. i have had no problems but it does bounce a couple times after a railroad track or big bump. im gonna install shocks to get rid of that and maybe help smooth it out a little.