What caddy mill, in a 55 chev gasser, and why ??

Yea, but don't forget that the main point of a Gasser is fastest, not most interesting.
Larry T

 

A lot depends on the time period you would like your 'Gasser' to recall.
In the '58-'60 period Ohio George Montgomery's '33 Willys was using early Cadillac power to nail down A/Gas Supercharged. A big built 390 Cad demanded and recieved respect in those days.
The latter 472-500s didn't come along until '68, by which time the classic Gasser days of yore were all but over.
Using one of these might be more practical, and cheaper, but they really never came into their own until much latter, and then as 'Bracket Racing' powerplants, where they recieved just enough mods to consistently run at the ET chosen, not at all like the old time balls-to-the-walls 'real' Gasser era Gassers which were built to the hilt, as much as the owner could afford, to run as fast as they could possibly make them go.
I'll point out again, under those conditions, and in that day, that it wasn't no 348 Chevy, or Olds or even Chrysler mill that held the National Gas class record in the '58-'60 Gasser era.

 

I have to agree with jessie about the 390. Would fit right in as far as period correct. I have always had a sweet spot for a 500 tho. Ridiculous torque

 

I traded 2 500s off for my present '62 390, guess that tells my opinion.

 

Might be getting a little off topic, but just to keep the record straight George Montgomery did run a Caddy and he did hold the record on and off through 1960. But so did other folks and they ran Olds, Hemis, etc. I don't know if Chevy held any records in A/GS, but you have to remember that A/GS was for the big engined cars and Chevy didn't have a big engine before 58, so there wasn't much development time for the W engines. If you'll look at B/GS records, there are quite a few Chevy powered cars.

And that's what's pretty neat about the early class, no one brand dominated. Lots of diversity.
Larry T

Now that I think about it, no 55 Chevys in A/GS (the class that was dominated by blown 400+cu. in. engines) either. They were too heavy.

 

you can't go wrong with a tripower 348

 

If it is more street drivability and cruising that actually period correct gas class racer, put a modern caddy northstar in it....They look awesome and run great....perfect for a street car!!! You asked!!!

 

go for a 365 - 390 caddy, that would be super cool.
I nearly have all the bits for the 6x2, 392 hemi to
go in my '59 el camino!

 

No doubt that a lot of other engines had potential, but the point made is Ohio George did use early Caddy power to defeat all others, win and hold the US Nationals title, in 1959-60, putting everything that came against him into the -'also ran'- category and on the trailer.
That is history, and the well earned credentials that belong to only George and his choice of Caddy power.
The 390 makes for a bitching, and authentic Gasser power

 

Now THAT is Nice....

P.

 

I thought you were talking records, not U. S. Nationals wins. He was A record holder, but not THE record holder. And some of the other record holder did use Olds and Hemis for power, so.........
He won the U. S. Nationals 3 years in a row back then, 59-61. But he used the dreaded SBC in 61, so I guess that one didn't count.
Larry T

 

I agree, be different! One of those Caddies will be a torque monster in that car and it keeps it all GM. I love a solid lifter, high winding small block, but I think a 472/500 Caddy would be too cool.

 

I like the 472 Cad, used one in my '36, but it's not a very pretty engine, and they don't look appropriately "nostalgic" for what you're going for. If you have one, land it's a budget build (which was my situation) then by all means, but if you're buying a core, building it, then you'd ought to think twice. I'd look for a 348 or 409 if I had to buy an engine to build for period style tri 5 gasser. You'd end up spending as much on the Caddy. An unpolished 6:71 blower on a 409 would certainly have the look...

 

so many thoughts guys, thanks for confusing me, more.. and to top it all off, I just got a nice small hemi, good running Desoto... NOW WHAT !!!!

 

You might consider what you want to run for a transmission first. There were a lot of changes back then. So if you prefer a certain transmission you might work backwards unless you want to fork over the bucks for an adapter. That will likely narrow down your choices.

Manuals and Hydramatics were big to use back then. If you are going period correct Th-350/400 would have been a little late.

My suggestions would be a Pontiac, Olds, or caddy. Unless you go the route of SBC. I've been going through the same thing myself. I'm pretty sure that I have settled between a Pontiac 389 or a SBC 327. I've got a lot of cool poncho stuff so I'm leaning that way.

You can still find poncho parts, in fact there's a lot of cool speed parts that were made for them. SBC is SBC, nothing wrong with them and parts are cheap. 348/409 are cool as hell but pretty pricey. If you got the checkbook for it then those would be cool too. The hemis are cool too, but also big bank.

You might buy a couple of the gasser books and do some research. The reign of gassers saw a lot of changes and such within itself. Better to pick early or late era.

 

Stick with the thread topic then...
"What caddy mill, in a 55 chev gasser, and why "

Don't sell out on anything but a Caddy.
Just decide on a 390 or a 500 (my choice)
Why? Cheap to acquire. Heaps of free grunt. Reliable.

 

ya, you'r right, Caddy is what I want.. prefer 60's style

 

We are suffering from a communication breakdown.
Where did I ever say or imply anything about "the dreaded small block Chevy"?
Certainly virtually everyone here who has any knowledge of racing history knows the part that the SBC played in the Gasser wars of the '50s and '60s.
But this thread is not about 'dreaded small block Chevy's' but is about what CADDY mill would be appropriate to run in a '55 Chevy Gasser, to which the answer would be an early CADDY, because the late CADDY came on the scene much too late to be an authentic 'GASSER era' engine choice.
Stick a 500 in that '55 and it dates it well into the '70s, or latter as a being a 'Street Freak', 'Street Machine' or an 'ET Bracket Racer'.
No authentic 'Gasser' ever employed a late 500" Caddy before 1970 because there was no such engine, and by 1970 the 'Gas' classes, and the famous "Gasser wars" were effectively all over and done with.

As for the 348 Chevy which has been brought up repeatedly, certainly a few were employed in the 'Gas classes' of the late '50s and the early '60s, but generally speaking, while 'cool' they were not very successful as race vehicles.
(were there ever any Gas Class National Record Holders powered by the 348??? )
I love the 348s, one of the very first engines that I ever laid a wrench to. In fact, thinking back, I have been in more 1/4 mile races under 348 power than any other.
But the guy didn't ask about a 348.
As for the Olds, Chrysler, and any 'other' powered Gassers, I am certain that they were fairly well represented at the US Nationals in '59 & '60, where Ohio George beat all comers.
Like boxing, there are a lot of contenders and a lot of bouts, and some are deemed to be 'fought better' than others, but each year when it is all over, there is but one 'Champion', and 1959 & 1960 it was George and his Caddy powered Willys that took home The Prize.
Trying to equate the genuine classic Gasser early Caddy engine, with a engine that was not even produced until 1970 is out of line.
The 500 is a terrific engine in its own right, and in its own era, but it is not representative of any engine ever installed in an actual 'GAS class' vehicle during the era of the real 'Gasser' years.

 

Jesse,
The "dreaded" smallblock wasn't directed at you but it seems that a lot of HAMB members would rather eat worms than even think about running a smallblock. As you stated, racers don't run SBCs because they're cheap, NO competition engine is cheap. They run them because they win races.

I gotta disagree about no other engines working as well as a Caddy (blown, 400+ cu. in. is what was run, is that the engine that is gonna be built here?) in 59/60. There were other folks with other brands of engines that held the record and won major events during this time period. So for the time they held the record, they were faster than Montgomery.

As for Montgomery winning the Nationals in 59 and 60, I believe he also won in 61,63,66,67, and 69 with Chevys and Fords. That might say something about the man and not the name on the valvecover of the engine he ran.

About what engine Rockin Rebel wants to run, I guess he needs to pick what year/style gasser he wants to run (somewhere between mid 50's and 1975) and build his engine to fit the year. If he wants a mid 60's style gasser go with a mid 60's Caddy engine. Would it have been a winner at the track, probably not but I don't think that's his point.
Larry T

BTW, I don't have anything against Caddy engines. I owned a Ford unibody pickup with a 472 in it once. Pretty neat ride.

 

390 caddy dual quad, edmunds made an intake. Ive got nothing against chevy but do something unique, everybody likes a frankenstein!

 

I didn't say no other engines would work as well as a Caddy, the question asked was;
"What CADDY mill, in a '55....."
Oh hell. just ferget it.

 

Ya didn't????

"I'll point out again, under those conditions, and in that day, that it wasn't no 348 Chevy, or Olds or even Chrysler mill that held the National Gas class record in the '58-'60 Gasser era."

And ya must not have read the whole post.

"About what engine Rockin Rebel wants to run, I guess he needs to pick what year/style gasser he wants to run (somewhere between mid 50's and 1975) and build his engine to fit the year. If he wants a mid 60's style gasser go with a mid 60's Caddy engine. Would it have been a winner at the track, probably not but I don't think that's his point."

Traditional Caddy Gasser engine from Jr. Thompsons site.

 

Nobody with a lick of sense, or knowledge of what he was undertaking, would even attempt to build an authentically constructed 'Gasser' with an intention of it being a 'winner at the track'.
With race rules being what they are nowadays, and the level of performance needed to be competitive against modern race cars, no authentic original, copy, or clone of any old 'Gasser' would even be allowed compete, much less be a 'winner at the track'.
Building a 'Gasser' is now done for nostalgic reasons, for style, for the 'coolness' factor, for plain old fun, how 'fast' the resulting vehicle actually is, is irrelevant, as most are only toys and show pieces, incapable of passing tech inspection, not being certified to run the e.t.s their drive-trains would otherwise suggest that they are capable of.

 

DID a 348 Chevy hold the National A/G or A/GS class record in 1959 or '60?
Did a 348 Chevy -ever- hold the National A/G or A/GS record?
What were the Olds and Chrysler powered Gassers doing while George was winning at The US Nationals? Did they all just stay home???

If a '55 Chevy was sporting a blown Caddy mill like the one in your picture, -IN 1959 or perhaps as late as 1964- it would have been capable of making a decent showing, and while perhaps not capable of winning on the National level, would on most strips stand a very good chance of winning the Gas class quite consistently.
Hell I've seen 15 second cars beat out 9 second cars. shit happens, and every real competitor knows from experience, it is NOT always the fastest car that wins.

 

OK, my turn

I would say you have to decide if you want the car fast AND streetable, OR 'correct' and either fast OR streetable.
With the hood closed, any engine will work. Nothing beats a 500 for power per $$, especially if you want to enjoy driving the wheels off of it. And it will be fast enough that anyone who gives you a hard time about the engine choice will feel a little silly, after you stomp them when the light changes. .

If you want it to look cool with the hood open, I would stick with '62-older engines - there are things you can do to make the 500 look less inappropriate, but it will never look like a 50s / 60s engine to anyone who knows better.
Since there is no substitute for cubic inches, and the tranny will be almost invisible anyway, I'd run a 390 with an adapter and a TH400 (or a B&M HydroStick based on a '62 Hydro, and no adapter needed, if you want to keepit more traditional). I'd probably look for a vintage cast aluminum 4-deuce intake, and run the big strombergs. Run a solid cam, big enough to sound good but small enough to maintain streetability, adjustable rockers, finned valve covers with the dimples for rocker clearance, finned valley pan, and fenderwell headers with removable internal baffles.

The key here, for the way you want to use the car, is to make some good power, look the part, but maintain some measure of streetability (you won't drive it if it sucks to drive it) and reliability (you can't drive it if it's broken).

Some notes on Caddy engines...

- '54-older Caddy engines have the bellhousing extension on the block, '55-up do not. Otherwise, '49-'62 engines are virtually indestinguishable to anyone but a Caddy nut.
- Intake manifolds are interchangeable at least from '51-'62 (and theoretically '49/'50 as well). There were single 2 and 4 barrel, dual 4, and 3 deuce intakes from the factory. There were off-the-shelf aftermarket intakes for pretty much every induction configuration you can imagine, including blowers. None are curretnly in production, so whatever you run will be used (aka $$vintage$$).

- '63-'67 Cads have the distributor in the front, and are therefore obviously newer at a glance. Intake choice (aside from fabricated stuff) is the 4 different factory single-4 configurations.
- Mid '64 was the beginning of the TH400, with a unique '64-'67 Cadillac only (and maybe Olds?) bolt pattern.
- '63-'67 engines have the oil pump in the timing cover. Bad if the housing is worn out (and looks funny on a traditional car), good if you want to re-configure the oil pan (you can put the deep / shallow areas anywhere).
- '64-'67 429s are arguably the most powerful (in stock form) 'small block' style engines ever built. They are also the most expensive to pump up substantially over the stock power (due to lack of popularity).
- '67 429s have a T-pedestal rocker setup similar to (but not the same as) the later big inch stuff. Aftermarket conversions require '64-'66 center head bolts. '64-'67 Cadillac head bolts are a unique thread, found on nothing else (automotive or otherwise, as far as I have found). The '49-'66 rockers are all the same, except for the spacing, which changed in '63. '67 centerhead bolts are too short for shaft mount rockers.
- All '63-'67 engines were in the 10.25:1 - 10.5:1 comrpession ratio range.

- '68-'69 blocks had an inferior oiling sytem and should be avoided for performance buildups.
- '68-'69 - 10.5:1 '70 - 10:1 '71-'73 - 8.5:1 '74-'76 - 8.25:1
- '68-'70 472 and '71-'76 500 = about 20 HP less than '70 500, and '71-'74 472 = about another 20 HP less. The huge discrepency in factory power ratings is BS. The dyno don't lie. Problem is, some people don't have a dyno and like to claim they have 'dyno proven' numbers.... i.e. the Performer intake = 25HP gain on a stock engine (that's not even close to what the dyno says).
- You can run a manual trans without sending the crank to the machine shop. But only if you get the right parts to make it work without doing so.
Shameless plug: Cad Company keeps the parts to do this on the shelf...
- Making a 472/500 look the part in a '55 Chevy gasser would be tough. Making it substantially faster than Ohio George's car was in '60, and still daily drivable, would be ... not so tough.
- Yes, you can break the stock '55 Chev diff with a mild 500, if you get enough traction. Or a 9". With stock heads.
- The only substitute for cubic inches is cubic dollars. $400-$600 will usually get you a drivable long block (or maybe even a running complete engine or whole car). The stock block, crank, and head castings are capable of HUGE power (see the current AA/BGS land speed record... ).

 

Phew - that's more info in one place than I have seen anywhere else. Yeah