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Block heaters, water heaters and electric dipsticks.

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Kevin Lee, Dec 8, 2009.

  1. Kevin Lee
    Joined: Nov 12, 2001
    Posts: 7,676

    Kevin Lee
    Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Thanks for the replies. This is a flathead so freeze plug heaters are out. I think I'm going to try the inline heater.
     
  2. 8flat
    Joined: Apr 2, 2006
    Posts: 1,392

    8flat
    Member

    The head bolt heaters like Frank36 mentioned would be sorta cool, definitely traditional. My grandpa used to run them on the farm.

    Can you still get them? You could put one in each head.
     
  3. 8flat
    Joined: Apr 2, 2006
    Posts: 1,392

    8flat
    Member

    I agree, the history of the head bolt heater is pretty cool. I had a parts flathead that had one in it, now I regret not saving it.
     
  4. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,681

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    Yes, flathead ain't got no frost plugs.
    Ford tech on choke: Thing smokes because choke position needs to be continuously pushed in as engine warms! Best protocol would likely be to bump idle speed a bit with the trottle knob and reduce choke as far as you can at the higher idle.
    Coupla big lightbulbs hanging loose in there really will bring up some warm, a blanket across engine and fenders IF you can be sure of no contact with bulbs will stop all the warm from going up and exiting upstairs. Old fashioned mechanic's light cages make all safer for this.
    Bolt heaters were made for flatheads. An older farmer device was a kero heater rather like a Kerosene lantern with no gl*** stashed under hood or under engine.
    Model T people traditionally brought their water and oil indoors for the night, and poured it back in hot the next morning!
     
  5. Kevin Lee
    Joined: Nov 12, 2001
    Posts: 7,676

    Kevin Lee
    Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Yeah, I'm kind of driven to want to make a couple of those now. I wonder where you could rob a high wattage heating element small enough to fit through a head bolt? Wonder what the wattage is on that cheezy heated dipstick?
     
  6. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,681

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    And...if you want good advice on snow shovels or heaters, ask a Canadian!
    Go to advanced google, put "ca" on the domain line, google up whatever THOSE poor frozen *******s are using. Many of their websites can now be searched in English so you don't need to find out what "block heater" is in Inuit.
     
  7. Kevin Lee
    Joined: Nov 12, 2001
    Posts: 7,676

    Kevin Lee
    Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Yeah, I got a little less crazy with the choke right after startup this morning (it was around 10 deg) and things were much better.
     
  8. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,681

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    The hand throttle will allow it to run on less choke so it will be happy longer before choke needs to go in more.
     
  9. 8flat
    Joined: Apr 2, 2006
    Posts: 1,392

    8flat
    Member

    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA (of course, I shouldn't laugh, I'm only 120miles from the border, and it was -28 yesterday)
     
  10. 8flat
    Joined: Apr 2, 2006
    Posts: 1,392

    8flat
    Member

    So, back on subject. If you were to make a headbolt heater, it obviously needs to be strong so it doesn't stretch or break when torqued down to match the other head bolts. Would you need to use a long grade-8 bolt, or something different?
     
  11. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,681

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    I think a grade 8 drilled hollow would snap like celery...they must have gotten a serious aircraft bolt and tempered it to spec after hollowing.
    I would try something else...if an industrial supply place can produce an element in that size range, angle 2 of them into the 3/8 pipe holes atop the head or through the flats on the pumps.
     
  12. billsill45
    Joined: Jul 15, 2009
    Posts: 784

    billsill45
    Member
    from SoCal

    One of my favorite family legends concerns heating the motor oil in order to make cold morning starts easier. Back in the early 30's in Montana, my dad's uncle drained the oil from his Model T and "warmed it up" on the stove so that the car would start. Uncle Paul forgot that the oil was on the stove and managed to burn the house down. I never got tired of hearing that one!
     
  13. Up here a block heater is thought to be a toque, for those who don't drive!
     
  14. Chaz
    Joined: Feb 24, 2004
    Posts: 5,016

    Chaz
    Member Emeritus

    For my money its the freeze plug heater everytime. I'm up in Montana and -30 happens most every year.
     
  15. You are overthinking things again Kevin. Just go get the $20 magnetic one and take one of your infamous B&W pictures of it and it will look vintage;) Just like the 50's bro!
     
  16. hipkatgreaser
    Joined: Aug 29, 2007
    Posts: 164

    hipkatgreaser
    Member

    I'm with you, here in wyoming it has gotten to a high of -10 man my ol 64 belair started but it's hard on the battery. Block heaters are the way to go. Even if it's not as cold as it is here it will speed up engine warming up
     
  17. 2muchstuff
    Joined: Mar 17, 2004
    Posts: 305

    2muchstuff
    Member
    from Eastern KS

    Kevin, to get through this cold snap a heater hose style tank heater would be quick and easy to install. Bring water out the 3/8 pipe holes on top of each of the heads, into a Y fitting, out the Y fitting to inlet of tank heater, out tank heater to a second Y fitting, out second Y to 3/8 pipe holes on water pumps. Water will flow into the pumps, through the block and out the heads. You may have to drill and tap the pumps, not all have the hole in the water pump flat. By using the Y fittings, both sides of engine coolant are warmed. If you wanted to get fancy you could use a valve at each head & water pump to pull the entire ***embly in the summer.
     
  18. Just a FWIW: I had an O/T Merc - a diesel Merc, for years. During the winter I plugged it in when I got to work, plugged it in when I got home, and I don't think that engine EVER dropped below about 100ºF all winter.

    Did I mention that it always started instantly, and I had heat instantly??

    Dunno about cost, but I think I figured it for 6-7 pennies a day. Maybe a quarter.

    Hell, I can spend a whole year's worth of heat money in one lap dance!!

    Not that I ever did, you understand.

    Cosmo
     
  19. 51 Shortbed
    Joined: Dec 27, 2006
    Posts: 3

    51 Shortbed
    Member

    Just my 2 cents worth when it gets really cold down in the negative Farnheit area petroleom oil turns to mol***es.I had a friend go to his cottage left the late model ford van parked on the road this was the mid 70's it was parked for the weekend in January well it hit minus 40-the van would not start and town was a really long walk about 10 miles away and no phone so he lit up one of those man made fireplace logs the the ones that are wax and sawdust compressed together and set it up so it was right under the oil pan lit it up and waited it worked . The oil was just to thick from the cold
    From then on he stared to install Amsoil synthetic as it's not affect by extreme cold like petrolemum oil is....synthetic is now available from most oil suppliers I run it in all my cars and never need to plug them in here in Southern Ontario , Canada
     
  20. 29nash
    Joined: Nov 6, 2008
    Posts: 4,542

    29nash
    BANNED
    from colorado

    I agree, I've used both and prefer the 'perculating' tank type heater over the soft plug device. The tank type (works like an old fashioned coffee pot) is easier to install and heats just as well, maybe even better than the soft plug type. It 'pumps' the water through the system, there's a check valve in the intlet and the water flows (pulsates) throughout the radiator, back and then again. Plumbed as 2muchstuff describes, the radiator and all of the system will be hot when you go out in the morning.

    http://www.tractorpartsinc.com/tank_heater_th850_3955_prd1.htm

    http://www.jcwhitney.com/Tank-type_...48;0;100001;ProductName;4;0;0;0;2000837;0;0;Y
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2009
  21. Fullblast
    Joined: Jan 6, 2004
    Posts: 930

    Fullblast
    Member

    Yes you can get a cartrige or tube heater, they slip into a machined hole, we use them to heat the absorber in our machines, we regulate the temp, but you could run them without reg, Maybe check granger .
     
  22. 8flat
    Joined: Apr 2, 2006
    Posts: 1,392

    8flat
    Member

  23. 29nash
    Joined: Nov 6, 2008
    Posts: 4,542

    29nash
    BANNED
    from colorado

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Dec 9, 2009
  24. Shifty Shifterton
    Joined: Oct 1, 2006
    Posts: 4,964

    Shifty Shifterton
    Member


    Isn't the majority of stress on a cylinder handled by the outer edges, thus the existence of tubing? I'd bet it wouldn't be too tough to make a hollow bolt up to the task.

    Maybe it's my imagination but could swear I've seen hollow rod bolts for super high RPM guys concerned about m***.
     
  25. Asphalt Outlaw Hero
    Joined: Dec 9, 2006
    Posts: 963

    Asphalt Outlaw Hero
    Member
    from Dixie

    Sometimes a 100 Watt bulb in a drop cord will help things along over night.
    The other is start modulating the choke lever as it warms up.
    Some venetian blind style blockage works if you don't mind getting in and driving slowly and then opening it as it warms up.
    I usually only let a car sit for a minute when idling.
    Good thing about a PU is you don't ahve a whole lot of area to heat up;).
     
  26. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,681

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    This is heretical to introduce here...a new-fangled complication...but you really cannot leave a manual choke on alone, as it needs to be pushed in farther frequently until engine is warm and choke is fully off. You are killing a cold engine with excess gas. Get a late carb of the Y block period, steal its lid with the automatical choke. Discard the original exhaust warmed innard and get NAPA to show you their electrically heated replacement choke coils. They may or may not have cataloging back that far, but lots of later cars have same diameter choke housing. They come in R and L rotations, so be careful.
     
  27. captainflight
    Joined: Jul 7, 2007
    Posts: 198

    captainflight
    Member

    Nobody uses anything other than a block heater up here (frost plug type). Using a timer to turn it on a couple of hours before you need to start up is a good method. If you want quick interior heat, get a 110v accessory heater and another timer and have it come on five or ten minutes before you plan to leave.
     
  28. Road Runner
    Joined: Feb 7, 2007
    Posts: 1,256

    Road Runner
    Member

    I have used one of the 1000W external tank type heaters in my truck a few years ago.
    They work best when connected to the water drain outlet, at the lowest point of the block. The heater should be installed just below the block. The other end with the warmer water should enter at the head before the thermostat, not at the water pump, or it will act like a permanent radiator byp*** during the warmer months. Also keep the car/truck heater valve closed until you drive, so all the warmed water enters the head only.
    A check valve at the heater inlet also prevents a byp*** situation in the other direction, when the engine runs.

    Cold water from the bottom of the block enters the heater and the thermostat switch opens around 110° so it doesn't generate bubbles. The warm water blocked by the inlet check valve expands and raises up the hose that goes into the top of the engine, forcing colder water at the bottom of the block back into the tank, when the switch closes and the whole cycle begins again.

    It works well to warm up the coolant to a warm temperature within a couple of hours.
    It does not help to warm up the oil in the pan however, which could be done with a warming pad.
    Magnetic ones can fall off, as magnets lose strength at high heat over time.
    The one posted that uses a high-temp adhesive may give better results.

    I removed the tank eventually and believe the block heaters at the freeze plugs work better without maintenance. The tank requires occasional removal and thorough flushing from debris, ac***ulating at the bottom of the block and ending up in the tank, making it less efficient over time or blocking it in older engines.

    These days, I just use a small heater that I slide under the engine.
    It never drops below 30° inside my garage and this also helps warming the intake on my straight 6.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2009
  29. mrpowderkeg
    Joined: Mar 11, 2009
    Posts: 178

    mrpowderkeg
    Member

    As for oil, run the correct multi viscosity oil, my truck says 5w-30, I don't see any harm in running 0w-30 in the winter, flows like 0 weight oil would flow at cold temps, and like a 30w oil at warm temps. Also synthetic oil flows better at cold temps...

    Oh and don't forget to add some fuel line deicer HEAT to your fuel tank, every year I end up putting someone's car in my hobby shop because their fuel line froze up (condensation causes it)
     
  30. plym_46
    Joined: Sep 8, 2005
    Posts: 4,018

    plym_46
    Member
    from central NY

    When dealing with minus numbers over night, I used to put a couple of 75 or 100 watt trouble lamps under the hood, One next to the battery, and one next to the carb/s.

    In the morning if it had snowed the effectivness of this was evidenced by the 2 one foot or larger diameter circles of snow free area on the hood. The battery and gas think they are above freezing, so they are happy.

    For the folks who don't think a small heater attached to the block or oil pan can be effective, they must have missed the 7th grade science cl*** where convection was covered. and since the heaters typically are dealing with coolant and oil, convection works quite well to keep a large m*** warm and even circulating a bit.

    For those without hoods I guess a tarp and or blanket would work to keep the heat form the bulbs in. It easy, it's affordable, and it's effective for the occasions where its gonna get real cold.
     

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