For you suspension gurus... It has always been my belief that the anti-roll / sway bar should be attached to the car at the very end of the build, when the final ride height has been determined and with no preload of any kind. Since I'm nearing that point on my build... I'm wondering how to handle this versus the air ride pressures (And... with a driver and full bag of gas, too, while I'm at it?). I have a 2nd generation controller from Air Ride. It is not possible to program or enter pounds of pressure accurately with it. Getting within 3-5 lbs of what I think I need on each corner by rappidly pressing the*****ons is about all I can achieve. Note: I haven't scaled the car yet but hope to do so if I can. Now, based on garage testing when I get the car to ride height and the 4 corner air pressures are programmed into the control box I feel pretty confident it will return to that position. But what if it doesn't and I've attached and adjusted the sway bar links for the normal ride height pressures? Will I get a problem pre-load(s)? Not enough to worry about? Serious? What about going to one of the other 2 settings, a speed bump height, or the Mr. Cool low down car show height? I will spend most of my driving time at the center, cruzn height. Just wondering. Any help appreciated. I only have a rear bar. Thanx in advance, Gary
Aloha, I have a setup similar to yours after looking at it thru the full range of movement. I think it will work fine ,but not as good when full up or down. I have a 1/2 mile down a bad**** dirt road to reach house,where I will need to fully inflate my bags. The links needed to be long enough to allow this when fully extended. This will make the sway bar react slower but with the bags full there is not much movement in the suspension. MY conclusion was if links permit full up and down and you keep it generally level your will be good
I wouldn't worry about it. especially having just a rear sway bar. shouldn't be much different than having some luggage (or a transmission) sitting on one side of your trunk. A couple of pounds difference in the bags side to side shouldn't make that be of a difference. Are you more worried about drive quality or just driving on a pre loaded sway bar or about the sway bar effecting the pressure of the bags?
also what is your rear suspension set up? 4 link" my '95 caprice police car just a rear sway bar that bolted directly to the lower control arms and didn't have any "links" in the traditional sense of what you normally see on swaybars. if you have something like this it wouldn't be of any concern at all.
A "loaded" sway bar at ride height is the primary question. If one rear bag or another changes pressure unintentionally (ie returns to a ride height at a slightly different air pressure) does that corner pick up a pre-load? This would be different, I think, than if the bag changed pressure via the computer to adjust for more load / weight in the bed (lowers the frame over that axle) to return the air spring to the correct ride height, eh? Gary My rear suspension is a parallel 4 bar and sway bar.
Yes, it should be installed at ride height without preload, in most cases. You have an exceptional case where this might be impossible due to multiple possible ride heights. What you need is a set of end links that can accommodate rotation, like a pair of heim joints and a short shaft. Something like this: http://www.ecklers.com/product.asp?...ssis+&+Steering+-+Sway+Bars+-+ALL-_-42263-_-X That way the bar is never preloaded, at any height.
ford f150's also have a ball joint style sway bar link ive seen used to eliminate sway bar link binding when used on bagged vehicles with tons of travel. btw, i wish you good luck with that programable controller. a simple set of toggles and gauges seemed much safer/easyer/user friendly after i tried using one of those.
I do have similar end links, perhaps not as heavy as those you linked, but workable. Still, I'm worried that (unprogrammed) air pressure changes will preload the axle, at any of the ride heights. Perhaps I'm just worrying about an insignificant problem? Gary
So far, the AirRIde box is working well. I had to get some help on the phone with them to get the start up settings programmed, but all's well so far. The big problem is that there is no way to input the exact pressures you want. All you can do is rapidly press the up or down*****ons and view the results. You'd think it would be easy to write a program to work with that box that would let you input the exact pressure, eh? I have it on the "slowest" response time setting and it's still too fast for my fumble fingers. Gary
Don't worry so much about a few PSI. Not two steel spring are truly identical, either, and you would not have an on-board gauge to tell you that. You'd never know, and things would still be fine. Also no guarantee the sensors are that precise, either. Just drive and enjoy!
Oh, and yes, the anti-sway bar will have a light preload on it in this case, as it will whenever the car is not sitting still on dead flat ground, without the engine running and not moving.
I don't think what your talking about is that big of a deal but if you are worried about it probably the easiest way too level out the rear bags would be to run a line between the two bags with a solenoid in the middle that way you could open it up to level pressure and then close it again so that you wouldn't transfer pressure while cornering.
Thanx for your thoughts, gang. Got the sway bar attached yesterday after a final run of up / down testing with the AirRide. All seems well... hope for a test run this weekend. Gary
I added flow controls to the release side of the solenoid to slow it down. Now I have very accurate control over pressure. I think I got them from McMaster Carr
Interesting idea. Do these replace the Air Ride parts? Can you tell me more? Pix? How fine is the control? Thanx, Gary
Sway bars typically are not a ride quality "changer" if you will, but more for a solid feel on cornering rather than a sway or swimmy feeling. You shouldn't notice much of a difference (if any at all) in straight line driving. The fishy feel really comes into play with air ride vehicles that run lower psi at ride height. Your best bet would be to test drive the vehicle at different pressures before you pre-set the controller to your desired pressures to give yourself a better idea of what feels good. Installation of the sway bar is towards the end of the build usually because things can become****bersome depending on the stroke your suspension generates. Sometimes getting a sway bar to function properly along with clearing everything and generating the stroke you need can be a PITA which is why you will see loads of people who just skip it and don't run one at all to save themselves a headache. This is weak. You really want to have a sway bar! By the sounds of things you got it installed and all is well so far. So great job!! If you still have concerns with over or under shooting pressures or sinking depending on load, you may want to throw that air ride tech controller in the trash and go with an AccuAir set up. It's top of the line and if set up properly will maintain your pressures always, no matter who gets in or out, fuel load, towing a trailer...anything that might change ride height, it's spot on!! If you want more info on it feel free to check our webpage and give us a call www.crazytalkcustoms.com. Good luck with your vehicle, hope it's everything you hoped for!
"If you still have concerns with over or under shooting pressures or sinking depending on load, you may want to throw that air ride tech controller in the trash and go with an AccuAir set up." I have used several Accuair controllers, they are top notch. In my opinion so far advanced compared to air ride tech.
it shouldnt matter if one side or the other has alittle more air in it.your anti-rollbar will keep your body-axle square.now if there is a hugh diff.then yes it will put alot of preload on one side but unless you are at the track doing some 7000 rpm launches you shouldnt be able to tell there is some preload to one side.
also what kind of panard bar are you using?in the pic.i dont see anything locating the rearend side to side except the roll-bar.
flt-blk is talkin about a slow down valve that screws into the exhaught side of your valve now. you can tune it to release as quick or slow as you like. they also make in line fill valves also to adjust the rise. look at suidedoors.com under air managment i believe.
Just FWIW, with a low center of gravity, you can easily drive without a sway bay. You will have more sway in corners, obviously, but by no means uncontrollable, provided you do not have a high center of gravity. I had an O/T Citroën 2CV, a stocker, and once I got used to the lean, I had no fear whatsoever while cornering. And I drove the little******* HARD. To give a perspective on the suspension, it had near 12 inches of travel on each wheel, was independent all 'round, and would absorb bumps so well that I did not have to slow for speed bumps, which drove cops MAD!!! Cosmo
the only time the sway bar is "loaded " is when it is doing its job. UNLESS you set it up with the car being level from side to side and for some reason you lower or raise one side and not the other . when i was racing we Pre loaded the bar to add spring rate . but in normal operation it is nuetral through the full range of travel as long as the car is level to the ground from side to side
The only thing that will load a sway bar is a change in relative ride height between the two wheels connected by the bar. Changing the overall ride height will have no effect on the bar, and the offset loading caused by the air bags having more or less air in them (from side to side) will not effect the bar any more than offset loading in a coil sprung car with only one person in it. The bar will have some preload any time that the ride heights are not identical across the axle that the bar is mounted to, that's just the way it works. I would set the bar with the car at ride height, and nobody inside it, just like any coil or leaf sprung car, and call it good.
Thanx again for your ideas, gang. I have the air ride box set for the three expected conditions, speed bump, ride height and slammed for car show parking. All is well so far. I was only worried about inconsistent air pressure effecting the pre load, but I guess it's no biggie. I think I will try to get more control in the air system later. If anyone is interested in the chassis details on my build, go to my album - about a year of posts. Another week or so and I'll be on the road with it. Gary
Appreciate the good words... I know it's an O/T sort of ride, but I tried to keep all the high tech stuff hidden inside to keep the peanut gallery at bay the best I could. Gary
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