I think you're gonna have a hard time finding a tapered bearing with a smaller OD for the race and the same ID for the spindle, but I haven't checked. Larry T
I don't mind turning the spindles down and I also want to use 54 chevy spindles. I think they are smaller diameter than the Ford.
The hub bolt on a bike is in double shear, all force is at 90 degrees to the shaft. A car spindle is in single shear. The same side stresses in double shear plus bending forces from the outer end not being supported and tension from the bending forces which are trying to rip the spindle out of the knuckle or rip it in half. No comparison equating one with the other, hope that helps
Paul, I don't have any of them around to measure. I'll be at the shop on Cruise Night, stop by when you get here. Larry T
What would be wrong with using say the outer(small) bearing for a Camaro on both side of the wheel and then turning down the spindle to the correct sizefor the bearing ID.
Starting in about 2003 Harley went to a single row sealed ball bearing in their wheels. At the same time they increased the axle size to 1 Inch. previous they used tapered timken bearings with a 3/4 axle these used a spacer in the center that set bearing preload when the axle was tightened. You can mix and match bearings between the old and new wheels. I would think it would be easy to match the timken up with bearing that had used whatever axle size you need.
hotroddon : A center spacer is used on the roller bearing wheels as well. Otherwise tightening the axle will crush the bearing. If I use a taper bearing with a race wouldn't that remove the need for the spacer between the bearings?
I find it amazing..several times this topic has come up,,and still no real answers Yet discussions about OLD dragsters will come up and everyone and there mother ( most saying they were there then ) are quick to say how unsafe and what not to use etc,,yet NO ONE remembers what anyone did for spoked front wheels ?? Are these things that allusive ? I'm sure some one saw these on a dragster and put them on a street car
I agree and I am fixing to give some real answers. I will try to get some pictures up and I am still working out the details even though I pretty much have it in my head what I am going to do. After closer inspection of the wheel I have, I have found is the wheel already has tapered two piece bearings with a race and no spacer in between. It is also the same size as the small part of a GM spindle. The hub is aluminum and has plenty of meat to work with on what would be the backside or inside of the wheel. so right now my question is wheather machine the hub to accept the larger inner GM wheel bearing and seal on the inside or Machine the spindle straight across to allow me to use the Harley bearing and seal on the inside. I don't really want to take the wheel apart and go through the re-spoking precess if I don't have to. I have a 20" lathe so I am looking at machining the wheel with the rim and spokes intact. I still have to work out the grease cap for the spindle nut and cotter key but I think I know what I will do there. I will keep Ya'LL posted as it goes. Paul
Yes just bore out the inboard side to take the bearing, If there is a bearing with the same ID and smaller OD, worth getting a pair to reduce the amount you need to bore out of the hub. Usually I use spool hubs, but if hardley ableson ones can be modified, go for it
I still build wheels for a aftermarket mailorder company.Harley hubs are as follows for big twin,up to 67 the star hub was used so any fed at the time or arround that era most likely used these for the new departure bearing was sealed and were less abundent.Star hubs use left side engine flat crankcase rollers for bearings and were pretty sloppy at best. You can convert them to a timkin bearing but aftermarket hubs can be had new for arround the cost of the conversion.Leave the oe star hubs for the restorers,imo they were junk. 67 -73 used a sealed new departure bearing,the easiest hub to maintain so they changed it to a double tinkin style and placed a spacer between them for end play. They used a 3/4 inch axle front and rear. Around 99 they stepped up to a 1 inch axle and a sealed roller style bearing also changing the flange sides of the hubs pointing the spoke heads down. I would use a late hub with a 1 inch axle if i was to do this,keeping the spindle as thick as possible and ease of part availibility.Guys are changing there new stuff as soon as they buy it so the takeoffs are plentyful and cheep. If a roller style bearing is the issue,they have been useing them for years on new cars front and rear. Some carefull mesurements and some machine work and you will be fine. Sorry if i ran off or repeated anyone elses comments,Good luck and keep us posted Gary
We used to use big HAWG wheels (FL) loose the ball bearings and convert to Timkin bearings. Make sure that the lace is cross 4 (stock). On a light vehicle its not that big a deal. Don't corwd it and it should be fine. One thing that one should remember is that Halcraft wheels are motor cycle wheels. They have been used successfully on a ton of T buckets over the years. But they were first used as digger wheels. And they are delicate to say the least.
The Harley Sidecar set up is what he is looking for, and the star hubs run roller bearings, not ball, so there is the awnser....Roach.
The Lyndwood rail I'm restoring has Harley wheels on 1939-40 Ford spindles. I've been told they were early 1930'd Harley VL side car wheels. They take stock Ford bearings.
You really need to make sure the axles can take the load. The smallest sidecar axle that will take the load (for a sidecar) is one inch in diameter. I have seen 7/8" diameter sidecar axles, and I saw that same one break under normal load. So, were I you, I'd like AT LEAST 1 1/4" axle diameter for a car. Spoked wheels are strong as hell, as long as the spokes are tight, and the pattern is cross 4 (as stated above). Ferrari RACED on spoked wheels, really nothing more than a wider motorcycle wheel. As far as motorcycle tyres go, I don't know WHY you'd want to use them, as they cost 2 - 3 times as much as a car tyre, and last about 8,000 miles. If anyone was wondering why guys use car tyres, read that last sentence, again. Please make sure the axle is strong enough, the rest is good to go. Cosmo
Its about the inside bearing,,,you use pre 66 Start hubs,,also teh VL wheels convert too willl be posting all the h gorey details shortly
if your wheels are sportster or lowrider wheel made after 1982 they will have bearings for 3/4 axle and will be set for dual disk. you can either fabricate some spacers for each side of the wheel or buy spacers to adapt wheel to wide glide. these spacer will increase width of hub and you could machine them for larger spindle (axle)
most motorcycle wheels have a spacer between the bearings to adjust pre-load and stop dummies who over-tightened the axle nut from putting too much tension on the bearings as stated above pre 2002 Harley's had 3/4" axles.a lot of Jap bikes have 1" both can and have been used. When racers changed from full hubs and steel wheels to lighter bike wheels at first the used what was available Harley 18" add 16" using the stock hubs as time progressed they went to aluminum hubs and wheels settle where they are to-day 17" cast wheels. On my friends Feds one is running 21" spoked Harley with 3/4" axle and the other is running cast Jap 19" wheels with a 1" axle it all depends on how much weight on the front and big bikes are heavy with their tour packs and trailers. Use common sense. Most small trailers use 1" axle and the same bearings as a shovelhead crankshaft. most are overloaded bending axle tubes or breaking rims they have bearing problems more because of lack of maintaince than any thing else
I am in the same boat as I want to put wires on both my dragsters. The rule book says they must have spokes thicker than .100". I know from my trade that bearings can be had in almost any size you can imagine. Here in the small city i live in we have two bearing specialtiy companies. I often order by dimension. I am making my spindles as I have made the whole front end so far. A 1 inch spindle is nothing to be sneezed at. Many newer generation cars have spindles much smaller than that at the small end. I dont think I would have to look too long to find an inner that small either. (Like those buick /olds front wheel drive cars of the 80s would have on the rear. Maybe a K car rear even. The aisan rice burners for sure. So the question is now will it hurt to machine a spacer for the outer bearing that will shim the spindle UP TO the 1 inch diameter. NO! Will it hurt to take a few thou off the inner thicker part if nessecary to get the 1 inch bearing to fit. not likey. Might already be about that size depending on what the spindles are off. What is the strength of a 1 inch diameter shaft of good quality steel? HUGE . Since there have been no direct answers one can only conclude that no one here actually knows or has done it except for the sidecar guy. As for not made to corner flat? Side car bikes have been doing that before most of us were born. Also police trikes of which TO and Montreal police have had hundreds. My next stop will be a trip to the bike salvage yeard. I will take pics all the way on this project to leave a path for future builders. Don
Best I can remember the Old HD and Indian Trike wheels where solid hubs with a keyway ,,,,,have to double check though,,and Side car wheels are not that much different if at all other than the absence of mounting for a brake drum..On teh star hub I belive they all interchange ( front and rear do ) With VL hubs the is a kinda 'cog' inside to attach the brake drum,,this is removed for teh sidecar hub. The Star hub is 3/4 axle ,,which works with one end of teh Ford spindle ..Have found a Chassis Research TE-440 that had teh whole spindle turned down to 3/4,,and wheel just bolted on
One phone call to Buchannans should answer all the questions you guys have. They have been building spoked wheels since 1958. I sent them a pair of stock 60s Triumph hubs awhile back & a set of new undrilled Akront aluminum rims. They sent me back perfect wheels. They probably built some of the dragster wheels back in the day. http://www.buchananspokes.net/
I took my Lyndwood dragster front wheels apart today to re-grease & inspec them, last time I did them was 1991 and the last time before that was 1964! these wheels are made from 1933-34 harley davidson VL hubs with 40 spoke 19" rims runnng 3.25 X 19" tires. this was what was run in the 1950's til the early 1960's on short wheel base dragsters & altereds till aftermarket companies like moon & crietz started making drag race specific spoke wheels (which ended up being shorted & skinnier for weight reductions & looks). These wheels & Timken bearings are the original wheels that were installed on my rail at the lyndwood plant in 1959. The Lyndwood rails used Ford 1942-49 square back spindles. You don't need to make spacers or fancy adapters to run them on the spindles the VL hubs need to be clearanced (opened up a few thousand's)) for the press fit race's. Inner Bearing - Timken #08118 with corresponding outer race<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o> *The I.D. of my hub at the top of the pressed in race was 2.312+"<o></o> Outer Bearing - Timken #1775 with corresponding outer race<o></o> * The I.D. of my hub at the top of the pressed in race was 2.239+" Hope this helps you guys out? Paul * I have blue prints/measured plans on CD made off of my rail for people wishing to re-create an old style short wheel base rail, PM me if your interested. Paul
There is an interview floating around about the Harley wheels that Pat Bilbow used on his dragsters. As the story goes, Joe Jacona found a stash of the wheels in Philly, but they required an adapter to fit the early Ford spindles. Joe had a machine shop in Philly make a bunch of the adaptors, and sold and/or swapped them to Pat for several years. My point is, the Harley wheels on Shadow's (Paul) and Bob's cars would not have fit without the adaptors Jacono had made.
true story, yes! but my spindles have no adapters just the tapered bearings. I believe Joe adapted the harley VL bearings to the ford spindle and Pat decided to for go that route and figur eout what tapered bearings he neded to make it work. bill Ott (badco on the hamb) wrote the story on the draglist. Paul
This stuff is too cool! I have a pair of these on my HA/GR. Now I know what they are! thanks a million gang!
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