Law concerning Titles Tickets and Taxes

I like living in a free country under the protection of law where the government is subject to the rule of law. They got it right.
That doesn't mean the proverbial clear waters haven't been muddied.
I'm not going into politics here and not preferring a form of government...

Law isn't just statute, Civil and personal rules, Courts and regulating authorities make law, and there is the common law or natural law. Common law is man's best attempt to ins***ute justice. It has been developed for millenia and is born of the inalienable rights of men.
The cons***ution is a child of common law and therefore is rooted in the process and any laws born of the cons***utional authority are also children of and rooted in common law.

A tree may not pull it's self up from it's roots and move about freely and the fruit of a poison tree bears only poison seed.
The law is ancient, has a process and is formed within philosophical, ethical, and factual bounds.
Respecting the law sometimes means fighting regulation and statutes, holding the regulators and legislators to the law. The separation of powers here in the US allow for this under a lawful and peaceful due process.
We do not need to fight with sword and blood and every man stands equal under the protection of the law.
In contrast to the other nations, our government is not sovereign, the law is.
Our nation is under the rule of law, not a king creed or cl***.
All persons in the US are under the protection of law by original right. They may do as they will unless it is explicitly forbidden.
Citizens are also under the protection of law but have privileges that non citizens do not.
Those who chose to accept public office and oath are under the protection of law and also under the rule of law, they can only do that which the law allows and must do as it requires concerning the performance of their office.

On the front end of the process we have a lot of great Americans legislators and regulators doing their best to do what they can for us as a community.

Part of the process is letting them know what the people want.
The Hotrodding community has been awesome in setting aside differences to fight for common ideals and to protect our rights.

Sometimes the legislators are proactive and set the pace, sometimes the regulators push an unpopular agenda that failed legislation and force there hand unlawfully. if the people regulated fight back then the law stands unmodified.
If no-one fights it then it often becomes law in time.
If the people want something bad enough the same process works in the other direction through regulators to stimulate legislators to get on board.

On the back end of the process is enforcement regulation, the courts, and politics.
One thing that is universal is that there is a bona-fide process and there must be order.

Sometimes it's up to the police to tell the legislature that something is flawed, wrong, or the people just will not follow it and it will not be enforced or it needs to be changed.
Sometimes it's up to a court to establish, challenge or accept precedence.
Sometimes it's up to a jury to invalidate a statute on a single case basis.
If justice is not at hand there is always a direction one can push to seek satisfaction if the cause is just.

 

Tickets ***les and Taxes...

Drive= operate a motor vehicle.
You still have a right to drive... on private property.
It's illegal to drive on public property and now you need a license.
What's a license? It's a real but intangible thing.
A license is permission to engage in an illegal activity as long as the rules regulating the permission are upheld.

If you engage in the illegal activity without being issued license it is a crime.
The legal jeopardy falls on the person.
The crime is punishable by fines against the person and imprisonment of the person.

If you violate the regulations pertaining to the license it is an offense, not a crime.
The legal jeopardy fall on the license not the person. There are potential fines against the license and possible forfeiture of the license but no fines against the person or imprisonment.
The protections of license however do not make one immune from civil liability.
If there are criminal charges pending other than violating the codes regulating the license, the irregular license based offense can be used to establish negligence of the accused in the criminal case.
In both regards it is important to "obey the rules" but there is a distinct legal difference in seriousness and jeopardy. criminal or civil.

 

How does this apply to getting a ticket or ***ling your ride?
When you get pulled over the officer is either trying to help you, secure order and safety, or he's going collect evidence and maybe arrest you.
If anything, the officer is always doing his job. He's a professional.
If it's going bad for you, He is either going to write you a ticket or he's going to collect evidence. I keep my mouth shut and ask the officer what he thought I did wrong and reply with uh-oh, I'm sorry.

But the most important thing to know is that when you are pulled over, you are lawfully detained.
You are under arrest from the moment the officer hands you that ticket.
When arrested, you either need to answer the charge in court or post bond agreeing to appear in court.
The Officer is a Marshall of the court, his duty is to get you to court or get you to promise in writing.
When you sign the ticket, you are posting bond with no cash up front.
If you don't post bond and are taken to jail and someone else doesn't post bond for you...you stay under arrest until the court date.

If you don't have your license on you he can charge you with the crime of driving on a public highway without a license.
You can be arrested for this and taken to jail with no ticket
A license is an intangible thing. what you have in your pocket is a certificate of license. if you can provide your driver's license# and it checks out that you do have license just no on you, the officer may just charge you with failure to have it on you and give you a ticket, a misdemeanor, not a crime.
If you do get charged with the crime of operating without a license and prove to the court that you just didn't have it on you at the time...they have to drop it to failure to carry of drop it entirely.

see how this is fitting together?

 

Okay, but what does this have to do with traditional hot rods? Not that it's not a well thought out post or anything, just not sure it should be -here- is all.

 

did you get in trouble on new years eve??
tell the truth now...

on the real though, thanks for explaining some of finer points of the law and how some of these things work together.

 

Now to ***LE.

***LE is an intangible thing
The paper you have we call a ***le is a CERTIFICATE of ***LE.

CERTIFICATE of ***LE is the do***ent issued by the state certifying ownership.
The requirements for CERTIFICATE of ***LE are a bill of sale, and proof of taxes paid and lawful possession such as having a previous owner sign off on the CERTIFICATE of ***LE. or a ruling from the court ***igning or certifying ownership.

CERTIFICATE of ***LE does not transfer ownership. It is a registration and proof of ownership.
The state cannot transfer ownership in something it does not own.
***LE is legally transferred by the BILL of SALE.

A driver's license, CERTIFICATE of ***LE, registration, insurance, and taxes paid are required to operate a vehicle on a public highway.

most states also have statutes making it illegal to transfer ownership in a motor vehicle without providing the buyer with a valid CERTIFICATE of ***LE. this applies on and off road.

You have the right to own and operate a motor vehicle on private property without papering it so papers are not required for operation other than that of privelege. CERTIFICATE of ***LE is required for exercise of a right, the right to buy and sell.
If the taxes are paid and you can prove it's yours then the state requiring a CERTIFICATE of ***LE is obligated to provide you with one.
The state might make the claim that they don't ***le all vehicles but this must apply to a cl*** of vehicles like minibikes not a cl*** of ownership like resident aliens or hotrodders.
How do you prove it's yours if you don't have the CERTIFICATE of ***LE saying it's yours.
First there is possession...9/10ths of the law.
Then there is a claim of ownership or interest.

When the impound gets a fresh clean ***le from the state, Legally it goes like this:
They received the vehicle into their possession legally as evidenced by the police order to tow.
They charge the owner known or unknown storage fees.
The owner of record can sign off his interest in the property to the impound to settle the storage debt.
The impound can after the storage debt exceeds the value of the property sell the property at auction to settle the debt.
The property is treated as abandoned if there are no challenges made to possession.
If the possession is successfully challenged in court, the impound fees cease for the time of the suit.
Since it is illegal to transfer ownership without ***LE they have to secure a CERTIFICATE of ***LE somehow don't they?

They make a claim of ownership backed with evidence of lawfull right to posession and financial interest in the property.
After state investigation of the property
Bond is posted for 1-1/2 times the value of the property and a CERTIFICATE of ***LE is issued. If there are any challanges against the CERTIFICATE of ***LE arise, the bond settles the loss.
This is the due process for acquiring CERTIFICATE of ***LE without one from a seller or a vin or a BILL of SALE.

The state is obligated to provide a due process for securing a CERTIFICATE of ***LE and for affixing a state issued vin if one is not present. They cannot lawfully refuse. They can make you jump through hoops but they must provide a due process.

If you've exhausted every apparent option there are always the courts. I'm not saying your going to get anywhere suing the state.
I'm saying if you reach brick walls in every possible direction and your not perpetrating a fraud, there are the courts.
If you can get a court to hear your claim and have and can prove unchallenged possession, the court can ***ign or transfer ownership in the property from John Doe to you.
This court order or ruling is superior to the BILL of SALE and other do***ents and meets the evidence requirements for issuing a CERTIFICATE of ***LE.

 

And this all leading to.....

 

????????

 

You know what it is leading to a, cop saying you ran the light and it was all your fault. "FAILURE to YIELD"


Hi ya Fred

 

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

How's it going? I'm gonna hold off on the shocks. I bought a new chrome front spring instead. Give me a week or two, I'm still in for them.

 

Nah, I didn't get in trouble but I've spent thousands of hours over the years studying this stuff.
I know it's alot to read but it's all interrelated and if I didn't cover the bases then confusion would arise as to the sources I'm quoting.

I was answering some Questions on other posts and realized I had too much info ****tered all over so I gave it a home.

I'm not saying this is always how it goes but it's the heart of the law and it's logic how it's argued and stuff. I'm not making Legal advice...
I'm posting it so that people having troubles getting ***les know that they have a right to one if the state requires on and why that is so in their own words.
It also is important knowing this stuff when you run into a civil servant who doesn't know their job or are dealing with an office or administration that is trying to force an agenda not supported in the law. It's not enough to tell someone they are wrong when they tell you no.
You have to prove why they are wrong and cite example if you have to take your claim up the chain.
Every situation is different but I hope I addressed the Kernal of the law in such a way that people will know where to look for help when building a case against their rights being trampled...
like someone at the dmv telling you the rod you built from old parts is a new car or isn't yours.
Even if their lawyers have loopholes and even if the statutes are against you there is always some direction you can push.
Almost everything I learned in this thread is from Hotrodders and dealing with what most people would write off as deadends.

 

Wait a second you said "If you violate the regulations pertaining to the license it is an offense, not a crime.".

and later you said "If you don't have your license on you he can charge you with the crime of driving on a public highway without a license.".

Wouldn't that therefore be an offence and not a crime?

I suggest you argue that fact infront of your local judge and I'll probably read about it later in the news......man CHARGED with failing to pay FINE, news at 11. Followed by some low drums in the distance and a fanfair of trumpets that fade out to a comercial for Erectile Disfunction, Snow Tires, Maxi Pads and then Baby Food.

 

****, now you start making sense.
Sorry.

 

That's okay Atomsplitter...That's why I made the distinction between license and LICENSE. Same as ***LE and cert, of ***le. One is the package of rights/privileges and the other is the paper proving it.
Crime and Offense...still ends up in a ticket to pay but one can send you to jail and the other can't



ps...Nice Chebbie

 

That's just a little piece of the law, I don't know if the law could make these distinctions without the technical versatility and exactness of the English writ.
I can write something in English that can mean nothing else but what it says.
This is a current that ruins through all of the law and it goes way back thousands of years. It's retro, It's our heritage. It's what people have been fighting for. If you look at it and think about how the rest of the world looks at it's people it really make my heart beat in my chest when you think about what it means. Think about it and ask your self why people would leave their home friends and family and travel to a strange country to live in poverty just to be nothing but just here.
It's almost a sin to lay down and let someone tell you know you can't.

 

Will someone PLEASE close this POS?

 

what was the question?

 

Can you draw us a Glenn Beck diagram for this argument?

 

i think you may be on a slippery slope with this

 

We don't worry 'bout that **** in Mississippi.

 

^what the one with the adjustablejohnson said!!^

 

Torchmann, go snort some more, I think it's wearing off.