Hot Rods HEADS-UP OHIO!!!!! Lawmakers are out to SCREW US AGAIN!!!

So what, your defense to being accused of street racing is going to be, "No, Occifer, I'm just drunk, would you like a beer too?" ???

 

Get SEMA involved RIGHT NOW and get public with your position! The biggest weapon the government has in this kind of thing is public opinion, and the promotional campaigns they use to gain public support rely on information that is usually unrelated to the actual problem, but it has great optics and gets a lot of sympathy from the non-enthusiast citizenry. For example, here in Ontario the Ministry of Transportation and the police continually published the same old footage of some ricers drag racing on the street every time there was some incident they wanted to portray as “street racing”, regardless of the types of vehicles involved or other factors. In almost all cases of actual accidents, the cars involved were not rods or even high performance, just idiots driving-while-stupid in mom or pop’s daily driver.
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In addition to prohibiting actual racing and “contests” (although poorly worded) and nitrous systems, the resulting law allows for 7 day seizure of the vehicle and suspension of the driver’s licence for all kinds of offences that have nothing to do with street racing under the catch-all phrase of “stunting”. This includes some driving offences that are already covered by “careless driving” sections of the law, but also includes simple speeding (30mph over), carrying someone in the trunk, wheel spin on corners, wheelies/stoppies, driving from the passenger seat (?), doing donuts, and other equally silly stuff that was just thrown in for good measure while they had the opportunity. I was part of a group that tried to fight this law but we were beat before we started because of the enormous public outcry over recent fatal accidents caused by testosterone and stupidity. They had nothing to do with “our” types of cars but the fervour generated by the government and the police gave them more momentum than we could fight.
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That is what you’re up against and you need to get your position out to the same people that the government is trying to brainwash with their messages. You need SEMA’s help, as well as some car-friendly politicians, business owners, and anyone else who has a vested interest in this hobby. You might use the obvious inconsistency between the penalties in this proposed law and those for impaired drivers as a basis of your campaign, but whatever you do, do it NOW, and do it BIG. Either that or sell your ride and find a new pastime!!!

 

Thanks for the insight noob. It is up to the interpretation of the police officer - if he says you were racing or making an exhibition of speed you lose your ride and his superior is going to back him up. Get real.

 

Write your Ohio Senators . . . I just sent an eMail to ALL 32 of them!

Web Link to Addresses and Names:

http://www.ohiosenate.gov/directory.html

 

Here is my letter - take what you want, just don't COPY it . . . use your own imagination!

===============

Hi Tom:

This is the first time I’ve ever written to Ohio Senators . . . from the looks of some recent legislation, it probably won’t be my last! I’ve recently been alerted to the pending legislation and vote for Bill 191 – so I decided to take the time to read it. As a software business professional who has been involved in many legal matters, contracts, etc – I can’t believe how poorly written this law is! While I understand the tragic events that have led up to its inception (and empathize with the individuals impacted), I cannot understand the lack of clarity of many of its provisions and the unfair targeting of a certain class of people, businesses and products.

The language is written in a manner that provides an unbelievable amount of power in the hands of the Police and Law Enforcement in general – without clearly written language to denote how to apply the law in a fair and consistent basis. Also, it appears that the extremely unfortunate and illegal actions of a few are being used to punish a large group of automotive enthusiasts, automotive businesses and people as a whole who have not done anything wrong and do not deserve to be treated in a manner that presumes guilt because of a certain type of car they drive or class of part they lawfully purchased. This is ridiculous to say the least!

Example Wording – New Definition of Street Racing:

“The bill expands the definition of "street racing" to also include "any exhibition of speed or acceleration that is inconsistent with the normal operation of a vehicle on a public road, street, or highway. In addition, the bill provides that persons rendering assistance or encouragement in any form or manner to the defined competitive use of vehicles must be equally charged as participants (bill's additions to existing law are in italics). "

Could anybody in the Ohio Senate explain to me what “inconsistent with the normal operation of a vehicle” is supposed to mean? What and who defines “normal”? As written, this law gives the Police the ability to define what is normal and what isn’t . . . strictly by their imagination! This definition is so loose that is just begs for an unfair application of the law – which causes issues in our courts and puts an undue burden on the Defendant to prove that they were operating ‘normally’.


Now Let’s See An Example Penalty:

“Under the bill, in addition to any other sanctions, the court must order the criminal forfeiture of the motor vehicle the offender was operating at the time the offender committed street racing if either of the following applies: (1) the motor vehicle the offender was operating at the time of such violation is registered in the offender's name, or . . . (it goes on)”

So – given the terrible language that allows almost any infraction to become ‘Street Racing’ – the court is now directed to ask for the forfeiture of the car . . . are you kidding me? How many Drunk Driving infractions does it take to cause the same thing – I believe it is FOUR! How many deaths are caused by drunk drivers in this state – and we’re much more lenient on those offenses. Why are you willing to create a law like Bill 191 that is so much more harsh and so much more arbitrary and unenforceable – it plain amazes me! Given the above, how many cars will be unfairly confiscated, then sold at auction . . . causing extreme financial distress, loss of expensive property rights and unfair prosecution – directly as a result of this law.


Now – Let’s Look at the Evil Nitrous Oxide Provisions:

“The bill requires a retailer who sells at retail nitrous oxide to require every person who purchases nitrous oxide in this state from the retailer to complete and sign a nitrous oxide purchase statement.” And it goes on and on from here . . . with all sorts of targeted language on one class of products!

While I do not condone the usage of Nitrous Oxide on the street (and have never owned such a product), these products are just ONE CLASS of performance products – why should this one class of manufacturers/resellers/owners be targeted . . . is that fair? How about the hundreds of other performance products that are supplied to increase horsepower . . . many from the factory at the new car lot.

Maybe we should we not allow any high performance NEW cars to be sold in this State . . . just because they could go faster than the speed limit or potentially be used in an unlawful manner by the owner – and ‘Yes’, maybe hurt somebody? Maybe we should outlaw cars of a certain horsepower? Maybe because you can buy a supercharged BMW or Mercedes . . . or a high performance Mustang from Ford . . . you should be asked to sign all sorts of ‘purchase statements’ – with the assumption that you just might do something wrong! Would you write the same law if you suspected that the target audience included high-paid and politically savvy executives – who just happen to like exotic cars that COULD go over 150 MPH on any given day . . . so what is ‘normal’ for their class of cars?


Impact Analysis:

We have many businesses, associations, events, car dealerships, etc in this state that cater to automotive enthusiasts – how many customers will they lose because people are scared of owning or building high performance cars, classic cars, show cars, hot rods, etc? It is easy to understand why they should question whether it is viable to even own a performance car . . . for fear that their driving could be deemed “not normal” and have their cars confiscated and lose their licenses for extended period of time? What will happen when a few cars are confiscated and people lose their licenses because they were not driving “normally” . . . “it” is going to hit the fan if any of those folks were really not street racers, but were easily labeled and prosecuted as such.

This bill is a classic example of something that was hastily written, in the heat of an emotional moment . . . to target a few . . . but leaves the door open to unfairly punish many Ohio citizens and create a nightmare in our court system.

Kill it or rewrite it . . .

 

Well written B&S.

 

Well written Bored and Stroked...I sent in a letter also...I urge everyone to do the same.

 

Fight it, but it will likely pass in some form since these "cash cow" laws are making the rounds here in Canada as well. They pass because they tell the general public that these will make our streets safe.

We have Bill 203... here is a summary of the bill. It's the vague wording of the bill that makes it dangerous.

The legislation includes tough measures for those who choose to race on Ontario&#8217;s roads, including higher fines and longer suspensions:

• 
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• The maximum fine increases from $1,000 to $10,000 upon conviction for street racing, making it the highest penalty in Canada. The minimum fine increases from $200 to $2,000.
  
  -
• Police can issue an immediate seven-day driver&#8217;s licence suspension and seven-day vehicle impoundment for street racing, participating in a driving contest or stunt driving.
  
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• Courts can impose a driver licence suspension of up to 10 years for a second conviction, if the second conviction occurs within 10 years of the first. For a first conviction, the maximum licence suspension period remains at 2 years.
  
  -
• The definition of a &#8220;driving stunt&#8221; includes driving a motor vehicle at 50 km/h or more above the posted speed limit.
  
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• The Act also bans driving a motor vehicle on a highway with a connected nitrous oxide system. Some street racers use nitrous oxide to enhance the acceleration capabilities of their vehicles.
  

Basically if you drive 30 miles over the limit, they can impound your car at the side of the road, issue you a fine from $2000-$10,000, impound your car for a week and pull your license for up to 2 years BEFORE you get a chance to defend yourself. Since most people drive 10-15 miles over the limit on multi-lane highways, it does not take much to get caught. They caught over 7,000 people in the first year!

Because there is no definition of "stunt driving" it gives the officer the power to call the shots. I personally know a 50 something women who got charged with stunt driving because she squealed her tires pulling away from a light. It little to do with making our streets safer, but greatly improves the Province's cash flow. The other added benefit of this is that after you are convicted, you insurance will jump into the "high risk" category which will likely result in premiums between $6000-15,000 per year because there are only a couple of companies which insure "high risk" drivers in Ontario.

Nice eh....Welcome to the Peoples Republic of....

Good luck!!!

 

Rustynewyoker:

If you&#8217;re asking what I think you asking about the example in my last post. It&#8217;s more so about needing a tow truck or not and how that&#8217;s determined. Preferably in clear and deceive written law not solely depending on the cops mood that day.

The DWI thing is really cut and dry you&#8217;re over the limit or not either way the cop&#8217;s done it hundreds of times and knows what to do.

Seriously bone headed moves that endanger lives like driving on a crowded site walk whilst doing a burnout. = The officer needing to &#8220;intervene in the situation&#8221; as it endangers other peoples lives impound car haul you&#8217;re ass off to the clink. Most likely the same result if chirping your tires during a race on a road packed with spectators. The theme being there&#8217;s a reasonable chance of someone getting hurt. That&#8217;s when getting your ride hooked is most likely. All these laws are in place now there&#8217;s no need for a more laws at least not in MN.<O</O


Now remove the pedestrians from either of the two above scenarios and the officer righting up tickets and takes accurate reports sending them to a DA / judge is the way it works most places I&#8217;ve had experiences with the law.

I think it&#8217;s 3 or 4 major moving violations in one stop though and your most likely going to watch your car leave on a flatbed.

Point being that from what I read OHIO is trying to give there officers the ability to profile and tow a car without the car having done anything other than &#8220;looking the wrong way&#8221; and have a minor traffic infraction thats major B/S IMHO.

How would the profile work anyway maybe look for car models that come with a little more performance under the hood, a more free flowing exhaust system, stiffer suspension so they handling better, graphics on the body and extra lights mounted all over the place or something along those lines?

Guess OHIO cops better start towing their own vehicles because that profile fits about every police curser I&#8217;ve seen.

 

Thanks Kirk! If you have an Automotive Lobbying Organization or Council in your area, get involved with them because they are the ones that are looking out for your interests and helping to monitor these situations. If you can't help them, at least become a member. Numbers count when they are dealing with state legislatures. Thanks again Kirk for bring this to our attention because it may be an issue in your state to.

 

Thanks again...This has been circulating for a couple months now. It stinks to high hell how bad this reeks of personal interest. Guaranteed not alot will change if it gets passed simply because of the economy being what it is, most local p.d.'s are already imposing they're judgement as to who's doing what in their cars. Its easy revenue. My local p.d. has been doing this for years and if you ever choose to press the issue, its often thrown out. They rely on using what amounts to scare tactics.


Scenario) you're at a red light in your manual transmission equipped hot rod. Like all of us do, you pump the gas pedal before releasing the clutch. An officer just happens to be within earshot and pulls you over for excessive idle or a muffler violation. upon requesting your creds, he notices no seatbelts in your pre-64 vehicle and decides to write a ticket.

Ok, most all of us know that its bogus and b.s. and if you choose to take it to court and do your homework, its getting tossed and the officer will get reamed if he even shows up. But, 5-10% of the population is gonna pay that fine just to have it out of their hair or worse yet because they don't know the laws that are protecting them.

Ultimately, People who engage in unsafe practices should be prosecuted...Furthermore, "a jury of their peers" should consist of hot rodders. But thats me dreaming.

Sorry for the rant and getting off topic.......carry on

 

Good luck finding legislators who will listen to a bunch of hot rodders. In Iowa they ignore the majority of all citizens.

 

There are plenty of ticket-able offenses, If a person really gets caught street racing.
Adding a "Street Racer law" will only make little old ladies feel safer, and give a grumpy cop more power to screw with a hot rodder.
Punks playing"Fast & Furious" should have their cars taken away,but you rev that big block a little and bark the tires shifting into second( that is WHY we bought that shift kit ) and you just handed the car over to the law.
Its a bad law boys. haven't they taken enough of your rights yet?

 

Sooo, when are they outlawing alcohol? DUI kills more people than a few wreckless street racers. Oh wait, I think the feds make much more $$ on alky sales than us hot rodders. Oh and for that showing up in court thingy, I've heard about new laws passing that even if you win, you still pay court costs and a bunch of other BS. They'll get you everytime now or later.
I had a freind get caught street racing a few years ago in his 10 sec Nova. He was way out in the country but somehow the fuzz new about it. After he was pulled over, the cop jerked him out of the car, threw him on the hood and roughed him up a bit. This was ten years ago when he was 22. His Dad, a very wealthy man, showed up in court, threatened to drag the cops, the judge, the courts and county through the mud with everything he's got moneywise and other personal vitals.The case was dropped. Money can buy freedom and power in the good ol USA. Just ask obama and all the other idiots who think they own us. Maybe hot rodders should buy the next election so we won't have these problems.

I rememebr when we raced out on the old country roads back in the early 70's. We never raced in Town because the one cop we had told us that is where need to go. Lot's of fun and we never got in any trouble.

Of course there was that oine time when Dad just bought a 69 Boss I went after him in my 55 Chevy right in town. Still no problems as we hooked light to light.

 

I'm all for the law as long as they extend it to people talking on cell phones and texting while driving too. How many people have they killed and how many accidents have they caused? Typical knee jerk reaction take away the hot rodders car. The accident was caused by drunk driving (already against the law). High Performance Cars are not the problem, Low Performance Drivers are. Get rid of them and confiscate their cars.

 

funny how they will end up selling those seized cars for big buck at the auctions..its all bout the money..wont be driving thru there!

 

Per the letter of the bill, any folks "rendering assistance or encouragement in any form or manner" to "any exhibition of speed or acceleration that is inconsistent with the normal operation of a vehicle on a public road, street, or highway... must be equally charged as participants", and would therefore have their licenses revoked, etc...

THAT sure seems like a long reach...

 

Just a further update on what you said. Several cases of STUNT DRIVING have been dismissed by the lower courts leaving the accused standing there with a large towing and storage bill as well as having to deal with his or her insurance company. Two cases have been dismissed because the Judge ruled the law is too VAGUE. The crown is presently deciding whether to appeal these cases. The Crown also has ordered the Police to continue laying the charge. They just can't cut off the cash flow. Welcome to ONTARIO.

 

I propose a law that castrates all men who don't pull out in time.

 

Frank,
I totally agree with you.The one thing we have going for us is that our state has NO money to legislate such a law....sad......Mike

 

Update: Here are the letters from the 3 Senators (out of 32) that replied. Note that Senator Grendell is an important player in this debate - I suggest that each of you contact this senator 'SD18@senate.state.oh.us' and provide your input on the bill as written.

We can have a voice, but only if we chose to use it!

Dale


========================================

1) Senator Smith:

Dear Mr. Hays,

At this time there has been no announcement as to when this bill will be heard in committee. To ensure that you are informed when the bill is likely to come up for discussion I would encourage you to contact the office of Senator Grendell, who is the chair of the Ohio Senate Judiciary- Criminal Justice Committee. Senator Grendell&#8217;s contact details can be found here-

Senator Grendell
Senate Building
1 Capitol Square, Ground Floor
Columbus, OH 43215
Phone: (614) 644-7718
Email: SD18@senate.state.oh.us

Again, thank you for taking the time to contact us regarding this important issue.

With kind regards,


Tom King
Office of State Senator Shirley Smith
Senate Building
1 Capitol Square, 2nd Floor
Columbus, OH
43215

Tel: 614-466-4857
Fax:614-644-6164
Email: tking@maild.sen.state.oh.us

===================================

2) Senator Wagoner:

Dale:

Thank you for your email regarding the House Bill 191. I always appreciate hearing directly from constituents. Like you, I agree that legislation, such as HB 191, that enacts changes with far-reaching consequences needs to be examined extremely thoroughly. Moreover, I agree that this specific legislation has many ambiguities and unanswered questions that would impact not only the authority of police officials, but the business owners and people of Ohio.

HB 191 was passed out of the Ohio House of Representatives on November 19, 2009. It is currently being considered in the Ohio Senate by the Senate Judiciary Criminal Justice Committee As this legislation progresses through the Ohio General Assembly, I will watch it closely and take your thoughts and opinions into consideration.

Again thank you for voicing your views regarding this matter. If you would like to discuss this or any other piece of legislation, please do not hesitate to contact my office directly at: (614) 466-8060.


Best Regards,

Mark Wagoner
Ohio Senate
2nd District

===================================

3) Senator Miller:

Dear Mr. Hays,

Thanks for your email. I have this issue on my radar screen. We need to protect public safety, but it needs to be tightly written so that it does not have unintended consequences or impose harsh penalties on basically law abiding citizens. I will watch this closely.

Sincerely,
Dale Miller,
State Senator

 

Her name is Box Huh HUh Huh <- my best Bevis impression
Seriously though that law SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

well, no, I'm just musing out loud if you're better off taking the hit for a DWI than the bullshit penalties this law will apparently hit you with. And this is probably the way to attack the law. DWI laws are pretty well spelled out, it's hard to cheat the breath test or a blood test, either you're drunk or you're not. It would seem to me that for them to find you guilty of street racing, you should have to be pretty well proven to be doing that, too. Like as in on videotape or something.

 

"The result law enables police officers to seize performance cars without a warrant on the first offense. This law also expands the definition of street racing to include "any exhibition of speed or acceleration that is inconsistent with the normal operation of a vehicle on a public road, street, or highway." This law leaves the decision up to the police officer on the street with no guidance as to the interpretation of the law or what is or isn't normal."

Welcome to Australia.....where the INMATES are DEFINATELY running the asylum.

Street racing is dangerous...any imbecile knows that, but to completely alter the onus of proof that our system of law is based upon to stamp out a few street racers....THAT friends, is the REAL insanity.

Proof positive that politicians are fucking morons the world over - no matter what flag they wear on they suit lapels.

Cops here have quotas - they'll be looking for ANY reason to get you if they've had a quiet shift. They have simply become revenue raisers for a cash strapped Govt in these "financially challenged times" - they are becoming more adept at creating revenue from alternative sources. The constant rhetoric in the media is...."Speed and we'll get you", "Drink and we'll get you", steet race and...etc etc....Its a fuckin farce.

The worst thing about it is that the cops here are undersresourced, underpaid, and there are too few of them around any more (speed cams took care of that - more economical for the return in $$$) so enforcing these laws are even more difficult for the Govt than they'll let the public at large know. So, due to reduced visible Police numbers, they are now targeting events, legal drag strips, shows , cruise nites to fine but soft targets and fill the day's quotas. Car's that were yesterday deemed to be "unoradworthy are no longer being put off the road today but are being FINED - repeatedly in some cases. Again, the revenue policy is balatant here. If the car was deemed dangerous enough to NOT be driven, it would have been put off the road....BUT, theres no $$$ in that for the Sate. Hence the policy change.

It seems like now, more than ever, the amount of morons in Govt with nanny state law proposals is ever climbing....but there is a method to the madness. It called $$$$$.

Rat

 

If you are a "Rebel Hot Rodder" now is the time to prove you're for real.

 

If you're in Ohio and you have time to be on the HAMB, you have time to write your Senator.

 

Werd!

 

racing is dangerous.....that's why we all need to do it on the track. It's time to start policing ourselves.....so next time you see someone street racing.....run them off the road....

 

gotta love the bull shit the politicians come up with

 

we need more buckeyes here.....I'll be contacting my senators......